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-   -   bench press and overhead press question (http://www.fitnessbanter.com/showthread.php?t=42296)

Pez D Spencer August 6th 06 05:31 AM

bench press and overhead press question
 
this is something i've always been curious about, and i've begun
thinking about a lot since i've started bench pressing again. i
eliminated straight bar flat bench presses from my workout routine back
in 1993 because i thought it was aggravating a nerve in my shoulder.

anyway, i've added flat bench back into my routine over the past month
and my shoulder seems to be handling it just fine.

my question is this: how hard does the straight bar flat bench hit the
shoulder musculature? i know it hits my front delts hard, but does it
hit the side delts?


[email protected] August 6th 06 07:48 AM

bench press and overhead press question
 

Pez D Spencer wrote:
this is something i've always been curious about, and i've begun
thinking about a lot since i've started bench pressing again. i
eliminated straight bar flat bench presses from my workout routine back
in 1993 because i thought it was aggravating a nerve in my shoulder.

anyway, i've added flat bench back into my routine over the past month
and my shoulder seems to be handling it just fine.

my question is this: how hard does the straight bar flat bench hit the
shoulder musculature? i know it hits my front delts hard, but does it
hit the side delts?


Maybe it was just a temporary shoulder problem that needed time to heal
and it appears to have been fully healed. Anyways, benching hits the
pecs primarily, triceps secondarily, front delts tertiarily, lats
quaterniarily, grip muscles quinterniarily, and I don't think it hits
the side delts much if at all. Working on dumbbell overhead presses
will hit the side delts.

Anyways why was "overhead press" included in the title when there were
no mentions of either a military press, push press, behind the neck
press, dumbbell overhead press, or "olympic press"?


Pete August 6th 06 12:38 PM

bench press and overhead press question
 
"Pez D Spencer" schreef:

my question is this: how hard does the straight bar flat bench hit the
shoulder musculature? i know it hits my front delts hard, but does it
hit the side delts?


I am pretty sure, yes.

It seems almost impossible to hit the front delts without hitting the
medials, especially in pressing movements.

----
Pete




Pete August 6th 06 01:32 PM

bench press and overhead press question
 
schreef:

my question is this: how hard does the straight bar flat bench hit the
shoulder musculature? i know it hits my front delts hard, but does it
hit the side delts?


Maybe it was just a temporary shoulder problem that needed time to heal
and it appears to have been fully healed. Anyways, benching hits the
pecs primarily, triceps secondarily, front delts tertiarily...


That depends on grip and the structure of the person pushing the weight.

lats quaterniarily, grip muscles quinterniarily, and I don't think it hits
the side delts much if at all.


I think it hits them pretty hard.

Working on dumbbell overhead presses
will hit the side delts.


How do you press a dumbell overhead?

----
Pete




Pez D Spencer August 6th 06 05:33 PM

bench press and overhead press question
 

wrote:

Anyways why was "overhead press" included in the title when there were
no mentions of either a military press, push press, behind the neck
press, dumbbell overhead press, or "olympic press"?


because i pressed "post" before finishing my question. i was stuck in
thought about the whole bench press issue.

to finish my question, what i meant to ask was: is it
counterproductive, after 12 sets of 5-rep straight bar bench, to
perform overhead presses?


Pez D Spencer August 6th 06 05:39 PM

bench press and overhead press question
 

Pete wrote:

It seems almost impossible to hit the front delts without hitting the
medials, especially in pressing movements.

----
Pete


from experience, i know that my side delts are really tired after
benching, but i never could tell just how hard they were hit.

i've seen guys who've used an abbreviated powerlifting routine
consisting of just deadlift, bench, and squats. i've never noticed
these guys to be lacking in shoulder development.

thx


Sag August 6th 06 11:23 PM

bench press and overhead press question
 
Pez D Spencer ha escrito:

this is something i've always been curious about, and i've begun
thinking about a lot since i've started bench pressing again. i
eliminated straight bar flat bench presses from my workout routine back
in 1993 because i thought it was aggravating a nerve in my shoulder.

anyway, i've added flat bench back into my routine over the past month
and my shoulder seems to be handling it just fine.

my question is this: how hard does the straight bar flat bench hit the
shoulder musculature? i know it hits my front delts hard, but does it
hit the side delts?


Hit in a good or bad way? It would depend on your form; the typical
bodybuilding press (elbows flared out perpendicular to body, bar to the
neck/upper chest, flat back on bench) crippled my right shoulder.

Much better to do them with your back arched and tight, scapula
retracted, feet firmly on floor, elbows as close to your body as
possible, and bar as down your chest as possible. It doesn´t bother my
shoulder if I keep this form.

I don't think it affects medial delts too much; I do behind the neck
presses for shoulders, anyway.


Steve Freides August 7th 06 02:53 AM

bench press and overhead press question
 
"Pez D Spencer" wrote in message
oups.com...

Pete wrote:

It seems almost impossible to hit the front delts without hitting the
medials, especially in pressing movements.

----
Pete


from experience, i know that my side delts are really tired after
benching, but i never could tell just how hard they were hit.

i've seen guys who've used an abbreviated powerlifting routine
consisting of just deadlift, bench, and squats. i've never noticed
these guys to be lacking in shoulder development.


It's not a lack of shoulder development that's the problem with benching
a lot, it's that, for many people, it leads to injury, whereas OH
pressing seems to lead shoulder development that's as good or better but
without the rotator cuff and other common injuries. The reason people
who don't compete bench press, IMHO, is that bench pressing will do much
more for pec development than overhead pressing and people want that.
If you're after solid shoulders, overhead presses will serve you very
well.

Just my opinion.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com



Pez D Spencer August 7th 06 05:02 PM

bench press and overhead press question...and dips?
 

Steve Freides wrote:

It's not a lack of shoulder development that's the problem with benching
a lot, it's that, for many people, it leads to injury, whereas OH
pressing seems to lead shoulder development that's as good or better but
without the rotator cuff and other common injuries. The reason people
who don't compete bench press, IMHO, is that bench pressing will do much
more for pec development than overhead pressing and people want that.
If you're after solid shoulders, overhead presses will serve you very
well.

Just my opinion.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com


i added in overhead press and dips into my routine many years ago
because of the problems i was having with bench press, and it was the
opinion of arthur jones (i've read most of his stuff--it's
entertaining, at least) that overhead press was much more beneficial
than straight bar bench.

however, i honestly never noticed that great of an effect on my pec
development from dips. and, on top of that, it felt like the dips were
hurting my shoulders. maybe i was trying to go too heavy on the dips,
but it always felt like my shoulders were being stressed too much in
the deep position.

of course, this was all before a two year (complete) layoff of
training.

maybe i'll take another look at dips again....

what do you think about dips for pec development rather than bench
press? less chance of injury? is the exercise more efficient and
effective than bench?

thx


JMW August 7th 06 06:45 PM

bench press and overhead press question...and dips?
 
"Pez D Spencer" wrote:

Steve Freides wrote:

It's not a lack of shoulder development that's the problem with benching
a lot, it's that, for many people, it leads to injury, whereas OH
pressing seems to lead shoulder development that's as good or better but
without the rotator cuff and other common injuries. The reason people
who don't compete bench press, IMHO, is that bench pressing will do much
more for pec development than overhead pressing and people want that.
If you're after solid shoulders, overhead presses will serve you very
well.

Just my opinion.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com


i added in overhead press and dips into my routine many years ago
because of the problems i was having with bench press, and it was the
opinion of arthur jones (i've read most of his stuff--it's
entertaining, at least) that overhead press was much more beneficial
than straight bar bench.

however, i honestly never noticed that great of an effect on my pec
development from dips. and, on top of that, it felt like the dips were
hurting my shoulders. maybe i was trying to go too heavy on the dips,
but it always felt like my shoulders were being stressed too much in
the deep position.


That's probably because you went too deep. I learned that the hard
way. It seems that you did, too.

Don't allow your shoulders to drop below the level of your elbows.
There is no ergonomic advantage to doing that, just injury. I have
resumed doing dips, and even though my shoulders will never be totally
healed, I don't have problems if I follow that simple rule. And FWIW,
I use as much as 135# on the dip belt without a problem as long as I
limit the range of motion.


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