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Old July 8th 08, 01:38 PM posted to,,,uk.rec.walking,rec.running
Steve Freides
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Posts: 2,029
Default Treadmill advice needed

"DrollTroll" wrote in message

"Steve Freides" wrote in message
"DrollTroll" wrote in message

"Steve Freides" wrote in message
wrote in message

I am thinking about buying my first treadmill. My family and I
are on
a very, very tight budget and we are counting every penny so this
is a
huge decision for us and I need some help in deciding which one to

I am 6 foot 3 (189cm) for 252 pounds (115kgs) and I need to walk
about 30min on a daily basis to loose weight. The climate where I
live makes outdoor walking impossible most of the year and,
besides, I
need to stay at home to watch for the kids. I do not plan to run
the treadmill, only walk, initially slowly (I am very much out of
shape), but eventually at a brisk pace to get a good aerobic

I have been initially tempted to buy the NordicTrack C2155 ( )

But the newer NordicTrack A2350 looks even better to me (

My questions to you a

1) Do NordicTrack treadmills have a good reputation?
2) What do you think of the two models I am considering?
3) Can you think of a better (as in value for the money) deal than
these NordicTrack treadmills?

Many thanks for any pointers!


Google the phrase strength-endurance, and don't settle for just a
treadmill. Google also "ross budget training" and read his web
site. There are a ton of things one can do, at home, for little or
no money, to build both strength and conditioning, and certainly
for well less than the cost of a treadmill of any sort.

My choice would be a kettlebell plus the book "Enter The
Kettlebell" by Pavel Tsatsouline - the combination will cost you
about $200 and is widely available. Or buy yourself a screw-on
dumbbell set at the local mega-mart plus a jump rope - that
combination will cost you $50. Or any of a thousand other things.
Just say no to the dishonor of dieting and aerobics and get
stronger _and_ well-conditioned instead - and lose weight while
doing it.

As usual, Friedes is partially right in his obs/recs, but has so far
to go as yet in trying to get over himself, that the correct stuff
is often unrecognizable, buried beneath his sundry personal issues
and self-preoccupations.

Personal attacks serve no purpose, so stick to the issues at hand.

Dude, I thought I was oh-ficially kill-filed by you, as you most often
completely ignore what I say in a given thread, and blindly post yer
own stuff, often just repeating what I said--further evidence of your
But since you ARE apparently reading my stuff, I'll tone down the
insults--at least the gratuitous ones.

A couple of times a year or so, I empty all my killfiles - everyone
deserves a second chance, even you, although based on this dialogue, I'm
not sure how long you're going to last.

He is right that walking is perhaps a middling approach to complete
fitness, but it is an excellent beginning, certainly a very
convenient tool, and actually capable of burning a lot of calories.
And possibly a requisite beginning for many people.
I myself walk 2-4 hours/week, brisk and up-hill (both ways!), in
preference to running in summers. In winter, the emphasis is more
on running.

I walk quite a bit as well, e.g., I walked about 4 miles yesterday
with my wife in two outings, the first a mile each way to a local
farmers market and home with produce, the second an evening visit to
a friend a mile each way. It is a lovely thing to do, and sufficient
for many purposes, e.g., the elderly, but I assume our original
poster is middle aged or younger because he/she did not indicate

But clearly not ready for Ross training--re-read his post.

You continue to put words into my mouth. I didn't say he should do
everything on the video, just look at it because it has good ideas about
training inexpensively for a wide variety of goals.

Nothing wrong with aerobics, nothing wrong with dieting, when done
intelligently and in context.
As a culture, we just eat too goddammuch anyway, and the zeitgeist
of "revving up our metabolisms" so's we can eat even *more* is just
effing ludicrous, profligate, and reprobate. And immoral.

I am a big believer in weights and HIT, but everything in time.
The site Friedes refers to is, and it is indeed an
excellent site--altho pretty intense stuff, but which you can always
tailor for yourself.

If you look at the cultures renowned for their longevity and health,
walking/hiking/carrying/herding is likely the full extent of their
"exercise"--they just do lots of it.

Also, if you are going to go the eventual weight-route, forget about
Friedes and his obsession with effing kettlebells.
KBs certainly aren't bad, but *nary a person on this planet* can
rationally explain why KBs are *at all* better than dumbbells, save
for one or two possible moves.

Whilst there are a litany of people who can cogently argue why
dumbbells are FAR better than KBs.
DBs serve the same basic function--resistance-- but are *far* more
versatile, more economical, more ergonomic, more use-able..... you
get the idea.
But Friedes doesn't. And never will.

You miss the point entirely. No one says kettlebells are better or
worse. Read my reply again - it begins with the words "my choice
would be"

And why would that be your choice, *if you didn't believe KBs were
Are you now adding disingenuousness to your repertoire?

You are again assuming everyone looks at the world the way you do. I
don't assume that my choices are right for everyone. I am happy with my
choices for me so, sure, you could say I think kettlebell training is
the best way to go about it - for me. I don't suggest further than
that. I mention it because many people aren't aware of the type of
training I do and its potential benefits - as many people aren't aware
of the type of training Ross does and its benefits. A newsgroup's
purpose, IMHO, is to provide information - armed with information,
everyone can and should make their own choices.

I will say *flat out* that dumbbells are superior to kettlebells, for
most applications/users.

Then you will be much more dogmatic than me. My training includes
kettlebells, a chinup bar, a barbell, some jump stretch bands, rings,
and even dumbbells once in a while. I don't consider any of them
"superior" because the question is "superior for what?" Who is
stronger, a powerlifter or an Olympic lifter? It depends on which
activity you ask them to do? Who is stronger, a Tour de France cyclist
or a strongman competitor? Again, it depends on what you will use for
your test. There is no "superior" to be had here. Surely no one would
hire an architect who said "this design is best for everyone."
Likewise, I recommend strongly that no one take training advice from
anyone who says one particular tool is superior to all others - each has
their place, and each has multiple uses. There are many, many good
training approaches out there, as there are many ineffective ones.

The difference between you and me is

1. I'm not wrapped up in fukn mystical Medievil Russia fantasyland,
and all its kettlebell soldier trappings, like some child playing with
toy trains;

Again, personal attacks do nothing but discredit your point of view

2. I can defend my statements in some detail, and

Neither of us has gone into any great detail about the benefits of any
particular kind of training, nor do I think we need to until asked.
Suffice it to say I can also defend my statements when and if I feel
it's appropriate.

3. I'm not selling either dumbbells or kettlebells.

That is your wish. You can read, on my web site, about the commercial
aspect of what I do, such as it is. In brief, I don't sell anything,
but I do make a commission from web sales that I point to the DragonDoor
site. Needless to say, I hope, I do other things for a living. Mostly
I am a classical musician, teaching at the college level and privately,
and performing occasionally as well. I also am a part-time personal
trainer, but I do not follow the usual model - I teach exercise like I
teach music, giving lessons no more often than once a week and expecting
my students to practice on their own. You and anyone may read reviews
of me as an instructor, hosted on the DragonDoor site, via a link from
my main web page.

and I assume the original poster doesn't need your help to figure out
that he/she may have a different opinion. I shared mine and I'm not
bashful about doing that.

But, the OP DOES need YOUR help, right?? please.......

No, the OP asked a question on a newsgroup and, this being a free place
to exchange ideas, I offered mine. Whether or not they're helpful is up
to the OP.

That you seem to feel my opinion carries the weight of some religious

It DOES! See (1) above.

Would you care to enlighten us as to who you are, what expertise and/or
experience you bring to this discussion, and provide any evidence of the
point of view you espouse having worked for you? I have done all that
and more and continue to do so on a regular basis.