View Single Post
Old March 6th 08, 02:45 AM posted to,rec.running,,
Andrzej Rosa
external usenet poster
Posts: 2,359
Default Does weight lifting or cardio exercises speed weight loss?

Dnia 2008-03-05 Elflord napisał(a):
On 2008-03-05, Andrzej Rosa wrote:
They don't know if running economy changed. They suspect it (which
seems crazy, actually).

In the abstract, they say:

"The 5K time, RE, and VMART improved (P 0.05) in E, but no changes were observed
in C."

They say so, but data they gathered say that times in C group increased.

You said "they don't know if running economy changed". I was addressing that claim.
Running economy did change, so your claim is incorrect.

But they still are not sure about it. Otherwise they wouldn't write
about possible explanations in the Discussion. They write that data
suggest, and all that "I'm not sure if my data are good." stuff.

Roughly by the same amount too. If increase of times in control group
is insignificant so is decrease in studied group.

No. The C group increased by about 10 seconds, the E group decreased by about 30 (the
C group drops in the first part which offsets the subsequent increase).

But that's orthogonal to my point -- that running economy changed.

And that's orthogonal to my point, that researchers don't know it for
the fact. You don't write "Another possible mechanism for the
improvement in the 5-km running performance seemed to be related to RE."
if you are sure.

So now we have an outlandish claim with fairly weak data supporting it,
which are misreported (change in E, no change in C) and the most

I think your claim that the data are "misreported" is just silly. I suggest you
contact the authors if you find an error in the paper, but I don't think you've
found one here.

Times in one group go up, in the other they go down. By roughly the
same amount too. Even if a change in E group is twice bigger than in C
group, it still is roughly the same amount if compared with total time.
We are talking about one percent here, two percents there.

probable explanation for any measured difference is omitted in
discussion, to top it all.

And what is this "most probable explanation" ?

Placebo effect. You always control for it when testing pills, but not
when testing training methodologies. The practicalities make it
difficult to exclude it, but it doesn't mean that it works only for

Andrzej Rosa 1127R