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looking for feedback on home gym exercise routine



 
 
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  #31  
Old January 26th 09, 06:28 AM posted to misc.fitness.weights
David
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,164
Default looking for feedback on home gym exercise routine


wrote in message
...
On Jan 25, 8:45 pm, "Steve Freides" wrote:
"Andrzej Rosa" wrote in message

...





Dnia 2009-01-24 Steve Freides napisał(a):
"Andrzej Rosa" wrote in message
...

[...]
Squat and deadlift are equally important competition lifts.
Westside
concentrates on bench and squat, because gear helps most with those
lifts. It makes sense to optimize somebody's ability to use gear at
two
lifts even if it compromises his ability to do deadlifts, because
the
total will go up anyway. Why, some people post higher bench numbers
than deadlift numbers...


When I was training as a 3-lift powerlifter, which I did once for
about
six months, I squatted regularly and deadlifted much less often - and
my
deadlift still went up. (I didn't bench much because I prefer
overhead
pressing, so I did just enough to be able to do _something_ in a
meet,
and that's what I did, something - I think I got 180 lbs. at once
meet
and 190 at the next, both as a 148 lb., 48 year old lifter, and that
was the last time I trained my bench press. This was AAU Raw rules
at
the time, so the lfit is paused on the chest until the judge says
"press".) There is a lot of carryover from the squat to the
deadlift,
especially if you aren't hampered by a weak grip, which I am not. I
found I could basically squat a lot, deadlift once in a while, and my
deadlift got better right along with my squat. That's how they do it
at
Westside to the best of my knowledge. IOW, it's not that they don't
like deadlifting but simply that, in order to be most effective at
all
three lifts, they've found it works best when they train the squat
and
the bench press heavily and the deadlift much less often.


Ah, so that's why? You mean that gear has nothing to do with it?
Interesting... ;-)


You still miss my point - there is a simple template that a new trainee
can follow here. Yes, a lot of people make it more complicated and
they're more advanced lifters, too, but I still maintain that it's a
fine template for a lot of folks. The fact that one's squat helps one's
deadlift has nothing to do with gear or with Westside for that matter,
IMHO, it's just the nature of the two lifts.





Seriously, if Powerlifting organizations had guts enough to remove
squats from competition and insist on raw benching, my respect for
the
sport would go up immensely. Olympic lifting gained a lot by
removing
hard to judge lift, and they even considered forgetting about C&J at
one
point, because commonly abused steroids had a much higher impact on
this
lift than on snatch.


To bring the conversation full circle, the OP asked about getting
bigger
and stronger. He should consider, IMHO, following a Westside
template
of each of those two lifts twice a week as explained in more detail
my
earlier messages and in much more detail than that on Westside's web
site and in numerous articles all over the Internet. It is a very
simple training template, at least to start. And he needn't deadlift
much, if at all, if getting both bigger and stronger is his goal.


Once we are at it, let's endorse Crossfit too. Why restrict yourself
to
only one overly complicated system which relies heavily on strange
pieces of equipment?


Oy - how did Crossfit get into this conversation?

Anyway, getting big arse from a lot of box-squats is not what most
people mean when they say they want to get bigger. I know it sounds
kinda crazy, but that's how people are. Really.


Yes, most people want only to bench press and get big "guns." A strong
"arse" is a good thing if being strong is your goal.

-S-http://www.kbnj.com



--
Andrzej Rosa- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Is this what you had in mind when you said a simple template -
http://www.defrancostraining.com/art...rds-part1.html

or is there something simpler that you had in mind.

Many thanks!

- "OP" :-)

Here I try to help you - restore some dignity to your sorry ass - and this
is how you repay me!


  #32  
Old January 26th 09, 09:31 AM posted to misc.fitness.weights
David
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,164
Default looking for feedback on home gym exercise routine


"Omelet" wrote in message
news
In article ,
"David" wrote:

Is this what you had in mind when you said a simple template -
http://www.defrancostraining.com/art...e-for-skinny-b
astards-part1.html

or is there something simpler that you had in mind.

Many thanks!

- "OP" :-)

Here I try to help you - restore some dignity to your sorry ass - and
this
is how you repay me!


Ain't it grand? ;-D


The idea is to stir things up around here
I went to a drive in last night - the movie was "Australia? - crap movie I
dont recommend it but still a fun night out - everyone brings chairs and sit
outside with beer or whatever- picnic dinner - - can you imagine 'drive
in's still exist? The guy who financed it just had this dream "if we build
it they will come" and found some cheap acreage 30kms outside of town and
built 3 screens and did in 60's style -
--
Peace! Om

"Any ship can be a minesweeper. Once." -- Anonymous



  #33  
Old January 26th 09, 09:38 AM posted to misc.fitness.weights
David
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,164
Default looking for feedback on home gym exercise routine


"Omelet" wrote in message
news
In article ,
"David" wrote:

"Omelet" wrote in message
news
In article ,
"David" wrote:

Is this what you had in mind when you said a simple template -
http://www.defrancostraining.com/art...side-for-skinn
y-b
astards-part1.html

or is there something simpler that you had in mind.

Many thanks!

- "OP" :-)

Here I try to help you - restore some dignity to your sorry ass - and
this
is how you repay me!

Ain't it grand? ;-D


The idea is to stir things up around here


I would never have guessed. g

I went to a drive in last night - the movie was "Australia? - crap movie
I
dont recommend it but still a fun night out - everyone brings chairs and
sit
outside with beer or whatever- picnic dinner - - can you imagine 'drive
in's still exist?


I miss them. They were always great places to neck.
Necking in a walk-in theatre is in very bad taste imho.

The guy who financed it just had this dream "if we build
it they will come" and found some cheap acreage 30kms outside of town and
built 3 screens and did in 60's style -


The more, the merrier.
The problem with drive ins lately are f-ing vandals.
They should all be hanged I tell ya!
--


Not a major problem here because most of the speakers dont work or have bad
distortion anyway- they broadcase the sound on one of the FM bands so you
just listen to the car radio
Peace! Om

"Any ship can be a minesweeper. Once." -- Anonymous



  #34  
Old January 26th 09, 02:58 PM posted to misc.fitness.weights
Steve Freides[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,038
Default looking for feedback on home gym exercise routine

wrote in message
...
On Jan 25, 8:45 pm, "Steve Freides" wrote:
"Andrzej Rosa" wrote in message

...





Dnia 2009-01-24 Steve Freides napisał(a):
"Andrzej Rosa" wrote in message
...

[...]
Squat and deadlift are equally important competition lifts.
Westside
concentrates on bench and squat, because gear helps most with
those
lifts. It makes sense to optimize somebody's ability to use gear
at
two
lifts even if it compromises his ability to do deadlifts, because
the
total will go up anyway. Why, some people post higher bench
numbers
than deadlift numbers...


When I was training as a 3-lift powerlifter, which I did once for
about
six months, I squatted regularly and deadlifted much less often -
and
my
deadlift still went up. (I didn't bench much because I prefer
overhead
pressing, so I did just enough to be able to do _something_ in a
meet,
and that's what I did, something - I think I got 180 lbs. at once
meet
and 190 at the next, both as a 148 lb., 48 year old lifter, and
that
was the last time I trained my bench press. This was AAU Raw rules
at
the time, so the lfit is paused on the chest until the judge says
"press".) There is a lot of carryover from the squat to the
deadlift,
especially if you aren't hampered by a weak grip, which I am not. I
found I could basically squat a lot, deadlift once in a while, and
my
deadlift got better right along with my squat. That's how they do
it
at
Westside to the best of my knowledge. IOW, it's not that they don't
like deadlifting but simply that, in order to be most effective at
all
three lifts, they've found it works best when they train the squat
and
the bench press heavily and the deadlift much less often.


Ah, so that's why? You mean that gear has nothing to do with it?
Interesting... ;-)


You still miss my point - there is a simple template that a new
trainee
can follow here. Yes, a lot of people make it more complicated and
they're more advanced lifters, too, but I still maintain that it's a
fine template for a lot of folks. The fact that one's squat helps
one's
deadlift has nothing to do with gear or with Westside for that matter,
IMHO, it's just the nature of the two lifts.





Seriously, if Powerlifting organizations had guts enough to remove
squats from competition and insist on raw benching, my respect for
the
sport would go up immensely. Olympic lifting gained a lot by
removing
hard to judge lift, and they even considered forgetting about C&J
at
one
point, because commonly abused steroids had a much higher impact
on
this
lift than on snatch.


To bring the conversation full circle, the OP asked about getting
bigger
and stronger. He should consider, IMHO, following a Westside
template
of each of those two lifts twice a week as explained in more detail
my
earlier messages and in much more detail than that on Westside's
web
site and in numerous articles all over the Internet. It is a very
simple training template, at least to start. And he needn't
deadlift
much, if at all, if getting both bigger and stronger is his goal.


Once we are at it, let's endorse Crossfit too. Why restrict yourself
to
only one overly complicated system which relies heavily on strange
pieces of equipment?


Oy - how did Crossfit get into this conversation?

Anyway, getting big arse from a lot of box-squats is not what most
people mean when they say they want to get bigger. I know it sounds
kinda crazy, but that's how people are. Really.


Yes, most people want only to bench press and get big "guns." A strong
"arse" is a good thing if being strong is your goal.

-S-http://www.kbnj.com



--
Andrzej Rosa- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Is this what you had in mind when you said a simple template -
http://www.defrancostraining.com/art...rds-part1.html

or is there something simpler that you had in mind.

Many thanks!

- "OP" :-)

******************
No, that's not what I had in mind. I said what I had in mind: to
repeat, bench press and squat, each lift twice a week, once heavy, once
lighter for speed. To get you started, that's all you need. The fact
that a program is complicated doesn't make it better, and while the
article you cite is complicated, I think it's fair to say that probably
80% of the benefit comes from 20% of the program or something along
those lines.

And just in case this isn't clear, to get bigger and stronger "the right
way" you want to perform heavy, compound lifts regularly. That's it.
The bench press and squat qualify as compound lifts but there are
others, e.g., pullups, deadlifts, and the like. I am putting forth a
very simple suggestion - bench and squat, each lift twice a week, so
that you'll be lifting 4 days a week. Eat enough, sleep enough, and
you'll get both bigger and stronger. I'm not saying you'll perform the
best contest lifts you possibly could or that you'll win a bodybuilding
contest, just that it will advance you towards your stated goals which,
after all, is what you asked about in the first place. It won't work
forever but it ought to work for you for at least a few months.

If you want to make it more complicated, be my guest.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com


  #35  
Old January 26th 09, 04:05 PM posted to misc.fitness.weights
Andrzej Rosa
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,359
Default looking for feedback on home gym exercise routine

Dnia 2009-01-26 Steve Freides napisał(a):
"Andrzej Rosa" wrote in message
...

[...]
Ah, so that's why? You mean that gear has nothing to do with it?
Interesting... ;-)


You still miss my point - there is a simple template that a new trainee
can follow here.


So what this simple template boils down to? You have a "maximum effort
day" and "dynamic effort day", so you lift heavy and medium weights
respectively, which is where you'd most probably end up without planning
for it. It's just not very feasible that a person will be able to lift
very heavy twice a week. Zatsiorsky wrote about it long time ago, and
there is nothing especially Westside'ish about having heavy, medium and
light days. When it comes to speed, Fred Hatfield wrote about
compensatory acceleration ages ago too so emphasize on speed and
variable training load is not specific to Westside by any means. What
is, is the use of weird pieces of equipment, emphasize on assistance
work and relatively low training frequency, which I don't think is
all that valuable, at least from a perspective of a casual lifter.

Yes, a lot of people make it more complicated and
they're more advanced lifters, too, but I still maintain that it's a
fine template for a lot of folks. The fact that one's squat helps one's
deadlift has nothing to do with gear or with Westside for that matter,
IMHO, it's just the nature of the two lifts.


Of course there is a carryover, and of course training for three lifts
differs from training for one. Still, you didn't believe that they can
start with assistance work, not even do "the thing" and call it a
deadlift training session, which I was able to prove beyond doubt (I
think). That's what those guys do, not my fault.

Once we are at it, let's endorse Crossfit too. Why restrict yourself
to
only one overly complicated system which relies heavily on strange
pieces of equipment?


Oy - how did Crossfit get into this conversation?


I believe that those training philosophies are quite similar. In both
cases you do a lot of weird stuff and hope for a carryover. In both
cases you emphasize development of generals over specifics, like in
Crossfit you try to build "strength" and "endurance" and in Westside you
try to build "lower body strength" and "upper body strength", while more
specific approach would go for more specific goals, like snatch
poundage, mile times or dedlift numbers and shirted bench numbers
without bothering so much if your general "strength" improved or not.

Anyway, getting big arse from a lot of box-squats is not what most
people mean when they say they want to get bigger. I know it sounds
kinda crazy, but that's how people are. Really.


Yes, most people want only to bench press and get big "guns." A strong
"arse" is a good thing if being strong is your goal.


So is having huge gut. So because you care about getting strong, you
plan on getting much fatter soonish, don't you?

--
Andrzej Rosa
  #36  
Old January 26th 09, 04:41 PM posted to misc.fitness.weights
Andrzej Rosa
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,359
Default looking for feedback on home gym exercise routine

Dnia 2009-01-26 Steve Freides napisał(a):
[...]
Is this what you had in mind when you said a simple template -
http://www.defrancostraining.com/art...rds-part1.html


This is a Westside-like approach.

or is there something simpler that you had in mind.

Many thanks!

- "OP" :-)

******************
No, that's not what I had in mind. I said what I had in mind: to
repeat, bench press and squat, each lift twice a week, once heavy, once
lighter for speed.


This is *not* a Westside-like approach. Or if it is, this is too:
http://drsquat.com/content/knowledge...training-split
(Light-medium-heavy type of split, broken down into a bit more complex
system based on genetics, but this is not important here. And he did
advocate lifting as fast as you can too, which means that medium and
light days are "speed" days.)

To get you started, that's all you need. The fact
that a program is complicated doesn't make it better, and while the
article you cite is complicated, I think it's fair to say that probably
80% of the benefit comes from 20% of the program or something along
those lines.

And just in case this isn't clear, to get bigger and stronger "the right
way" you want to perform heavy, compound lifts regularly.


It follows that doing a circuit type of training consisting mostly of
multiple sets of medium reps upper body machine exercises will not be
"the right way"? If so, MMA fighters are doing it all wrong.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cq7Kdv0RHmc

That's it.
The bench press and squat qualify as compound lifts but there are
others, e.g., pullups, deadlifts, and the like. I am putting forth a
very simple suggestion - bench and squat, each lift twice a week, so
that you'll be lifting 4 days a week. Eat enough, sleep enough, and
you'll get both bigger and stronger.


Expect to be worn out after the first round, though. ;-)

I'm not saying you'll perform the
best contest lifts you possibly could or that you'll win a bodybuilding
contest, just that it will advance you towards your stated goals which,
after all, is what you asked about in the first place.


According to his stated goals and your personal definition of strength.
You don't think that what Westside guys call "repetitive effort"
qualifies as strength, but that's just you Steve. For most people being
able to do more reps or sets with the same weight is getting stronger
all right.

It won't work
forever but it ought to work for you for at least a few months.

If you want to make it more complicated, be my guest.


C'mon. What's so complicated about two day split consisting mostly of
compound moves plus some arm isolation exercises? You don't believe
that curls make you stronger? Go and try to beat a curl-obsessed guy in
an arm-wrestling bout. I did, and I assure you that it takes much
better technique, because they are _strong_! And they don't seem to
wear out at all too.

--
Andrzej Rosa
  #37  
Old January 26th 09, 06:30 PM posted to misc.fitness.weights
Steve Freides[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,038
Default looking for feedback on home gym exercise routine

"Andrzej Rosa" wrote in message
...
Dnia 2009-01-26 Steve Freides napisał(a):
[...]
Is this what you had in mind when you said a simple template -
http://www.defrancostraining.com/art...rds-part1.html


This is a Westside-like approach.

or is there something simpler that you had in mind.

Many thanks!

- "OP" :-)

******************
No, that's not what I had in mind. I said what I had in mind: to
repeat, bench press and squat, each lift twice a week, once heavy,
once
lighter for speed.


This is *not* a Westside-like approach. Or if it is, this is too:
http://drsquat.com/content/knowledge...training-split
(Light-medium-heavy type of split, broken down into a bit more complex
system based on genetics, but this is not important here. And he did
advocate lifting as fast as you can too, which means that medium and
light days are "speed" days.)

To get you started, that's all you need. The fact
that a program is complicated doesn't make it better, and while the
article you cite is complicated, I think it's fair to say that
probably
80% of the benefit comes from 20% of the program or something along
those lines.

And just in case this isn't clear, to get bigger and stronger "the
right
way" you want to perform heavy, compound lifts regularly.


It follows that doing a circuit type of training consisting mostly of
multiple sets of medium reps upper body machine exercises will not be
"the right way"? If so, MMA fighters are doing it all wrong.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cq7Kdv0RHmc

That's it.
The bench press and squat qualify as compound lifts but there are
others, e.g., pullups, deadlifts, and the like. I am putting forth a
very simple suggestion - bench and squat, each lift twice a week, so
that you'll be lifting 4 days a week. Eat enough, sleep enough, and
you'll get both bigger and stronger.


Expect to be worn out after the first round, though. ;-)

I'm not saying you'll perform the
best contest lifts you possibly could or that you'll win a
bodybuilding
contest, just that it will advance you towards your stated goals
which,
after all, is what you asked about in the first place.


According to his stated goals and your personal definition of
strength.
You don't think that what Westside guys call "repetitive effort"
qualifies as strength, but that's just you Steve. For most people
being
able to do more reps or sets with the same weight is getting stronger
all right.

It won't work
forever but it ought to work for you for at least a few months.

If you want to make it more complicated, be my guest.


C'mon. What's so complicated about two day split consisting mostly of
compound moves plus some arm isolation exercises? You don't believe
that curls make you stronger? Go and try to beat a curl-obsessed guy
in
an arm-wrestling bout. I did, and I assure you that it takes much
better technique, because they are _strong_! And they don't seem to
wear out at all too.

--
Andrzej Rosa


One area in which your skill level is high is changing the subject - all
I said was "this will work." I didn't say anything about arm-wrestling,
mixed martial arts, unmixed non-martial arts, or God only knows what
else. And I didn't say my suggestion was the only way, only that I
thought it was worth trying, which I still think it is.

The last word is yours - I tire of this so no more replies from me to
you on this thread.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com


  #38  
Old January 26th 09, 07:10 PM posted to misc.fitness.weights
Andrzej Rosa
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,359
Default looking for feedback on home gym exercise routine

Dnia 2009-01-26 Steve Freides napisał(a):
[...]
The last word is yours - I tire of this so no more replies from me to
you on this thread.


My today's workout consisted of dumbbell overhead squats, dumbbell clean
and pressess and dumbbell rows. That's all I did. I did it
circuit-style too, with short rest periods and I don't think I did more
than six reps during any set (though I could, I don't count much).

I don't think you'd find this workout disgusting, do you? Simple, quite
intense, only compound stuff, no foo-foos. How come do we still argue,
if I could gladly do your stuff and you wouldn't find my workouts a
stretch too? Well, my guess is that while I think my way is fine for
me, you tend to think your way is fine for everybody. Small difference,
but it shows.

--
Andrzej Rosa
 




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