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OT but a good read. :-)



 
 
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  #1  
Old January 10th 09, 03:16 PM posted to misc.fitness.weights
Andrzej Rosa
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,359
Default OT but a good read. :-)

Dnia 2009-01-09 Omelet napisał(a):
From:
http://www.policeone.com/patrol-issu...-Exclusive-In-
humor-there-is-truth/

Richard Fairburn Law Enforcement Firearms
with Richard Fairburn

P1 Exclusive: In humor, there is truth


It all reads fairly well, but it smells paranoid. You see, I remember
times when cops were supposed to shoot twice in the air, then aim for
legs before shooting for real, and they did. "Nasty ugly commies", no
less, but that's what they actually did. Interesting that in your free
world and cornerstone of democracy things look so much differently.

[...]
--
Andrzej Rosa
  #2  
Old January 10th 09, 07:41 PM posted to misc.fitness.weights
Andrzej Rosa
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,359
Default OT but a good read. :-)

Dnia 2009-01-10 Omelet napisał(a):
In article ,
Andrzej Rosa wrote:

It all reads fairly well, but it smells paranoid. You see, I remember
times when cops were supposed to shoot twice in the air, then aim for
legs before shooting for real, and they did. "Nasty ugly commies", no
less, but that's what they actually did. Interesting that in your free
world and cornerstone of democracy things look so much differently.

[...]


Cops get tired of dieing when trying to play fair...


Our cops thought it was fair if they could abuse anybody they wished,
as long as the abusee didn't have high placed connections. They just
weren't much given to shooting people, in big part because the powers
that be didn't like the mess.

If you are in a fair fight anymore, it means your tactics suck.


If you have to fight at all, something else sucks even worse.

--
Andrzej Rosa
  #3  
Old January 10th 09, 11:46 PM posted to misc.fitness.weights
Tom Anderson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,436
Default OT but a good read. :-)

On Sat, 10 Jan 2009, Omelet wrote:

In article ,
Andrzej Rosa wrote:

Dnia 2009-01-10 Omelet napisał(a):

If you are in a fair fight anymore, it means your tactics suck.


If you have to fight at all, something else sucks even worse.


So how would you fix the problem? Taking away ALL a cops power is not
the answer.

Criminals cannot be tolerated. They thrive on the indulgence of society.

England is a perfect example. People being prosecuted for defending
themselves.


Don't believe everything you read in the papers, Om. Or on usenet.

tom

--
FREQUENT VIOLENT BLOODY
  #4  
Old January 11th 09, 11:16 AM posted to misc.fitness.weights
Tom Anderson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,436
Default OT but a good read. :-)

On Sat, 10 Jan 2009, Omelet wrote:

In article ,
Tom Anderson wrote:

On Sat, 10 Jan 2009, Omelet wrote:

In article ,
Andrzej Rosa wrote:

Dnia 2009-01-10 Omelet napisał(a):

If you are in a fair fight anymore, it means your tactics suck.

If you have to fight at all, something else sucks even worse.

So how would you fix the problem? Taking away ALL a cops power is not
the answer.

Criminals cannot be tolerated. They thrive on the indulgence of society.

England is a perfect example. People being prosecuted for defending
themselves.


Don't believe everything you read in the papers, Om. Or on usenet.


Ok, but most of that thing DOES come from the UK media.


It was the UK papers i was talking about!

A lot of what I've read seems to be bloody unfair.


Yup. Makes a better story that way, and thus sells more copies.

tom

--
Fitter, Happier, More Productive.
  #5  
Old January 11th 09, 11:24 AM posted to misc.fitness.weights
Andrzej Rosa
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,359
Default OT but a good read. :-)

Dnia 2009-01-10 Omelet napisał(a):
In article ,
Andrzej Rosa wrote:

[...]
Cops get tired of dieing when trying to play fair...


Our cops thought it was fair if they could abuse anybody they wished,
as long as the abusee didn't have high placed connections. They just
weren't much given to shooting people, in big part because the powers
that be didn't like the mess.

If you are in a fair fight anymore, it means your tactics suck.


If you have to fight at all, something else sucks even worse.


So how would you fix the problem?


So there is a problem? I didn't think you'd admit to that.

On a related note. "Nasty ugly commies" weren't much given to torture
too. It could happen that if they caught a member of the gang they
would give him a good thrashing, just to help his memory you know, or
that an organizer of a political demonstration couldn't sit for a while
after they explained him how much they didn't like what he was trying to
do, but that were rare examples.

In your country though, causing extreme pain to citizens under the
slightest pretext is fairly common nowadays. They tell you to calm
down, or they will tase you, and they do. Many times in a row too.
Interesting, don't you think?

Taking away ALL a cops power is not
the answer.

Criminals cannot be tolerated. They thrive on the indulgence of society.

England is a perfect example. People being prosecuted for defending
themselves.

Sorry, but that, to me, is more wrong than shooting a criminal that is
shooting at ME.


Just tune down your pride for how much freedom you have out there, until
being free to be shot or tased is one of your oh so cherished rights.

--
Andrzej Rosa
  #6  
Old January 11th 09, 02:17 PM posted to misc.fitness.weights
Tom Anderson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,436
Default OT but a good read. :-)

On Sun, 11 Jan 2009, Omelet wrote:

In article ,
Tom Anderson wrote:

On Sat, 10 Jan 2009, Omelet wrote:

In article ,
Tom Anderson wrote:

On Sat, 10 Jan 2009, Omelet wrote:

In article ,
Andrzej Rosa wrote:

Dnia 2009-01-10 Omelet napisał(a):

If you are in a fair fight anymore, it means your tactics suck.

If you have to fight at all, something else sucks even worse.

So how would you fix the problem? Taking away ALL a cops power is not
the answer.

Criminals cannot be tolerated. They thrive on the indulgence of society.

England is a perfect example. People being prosecuted for defending
themselves.

Don't believe everything you read in the papers, Om. Or on usenet.

Ok, but most of that thing DOES come from the UK media.


It was the UK papers i was talking about!

A lot of what I've read seems to be bloody unfair.


Yup. Makes a better story that way, and thus sells more copies.


So you are saying most of it is lies? That'd be a relief. It would seem
bloody unfair for someone to go to jail for defending themselves against
a mugging and/or have the robber that broke into their home win a
lawsuit on top of it.


It's usually (but not always) the case that all that did happen, but the
particulars of the case are such that the punishment was just.

The Tony Martin case is the only one i can talk about offhand. That was
where two guys broke into a farmer's house, and he shot and killed one in
self-defence, and was sent to prison for murder.

Except that what actually happened is that when Mr Martin showed up with
his gun, the burglars turned tail and fled - and then Martin shot one in
the back. Yes, they were on his property, and yes, they had been trying to
steal his stuff. But he quite deliberately killed someone who posed him no
physical threat, and was not at that moment in the process of committing a
crime. That's murder.

tom

--
I came here to chew gum and kick ass
  #7  
Old January 11th 09, 10:04 PM posted to misc.fitness.weights
Andrzej Rosa
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,359
Default OT but a good read. :-)

Dnia 2009-01-11 Omelet napisał(a):
In article ,
Andrzej Rosa wrote:

On a related note. "Nasty ugly commies" weren't much given to torture
too. It could happen that if they caught a member of the gang they
would give him a good thrashing, just to help his memory you know, or
that an organizer of a political demonstration couldn't sit for a while
after they explained him how much they didn't like what he was trying to
do, but that were rare examples.

In your country though, causing extreme pain to citizens under the
slightest pretext is fairly common nowadays. They tell you to calm
down, or they will tase you, and they do. Many times in a row too.
Interesting, don't you think?


I'm not a fan of tasers, but after a lot of looking into them, they are
better than the alternative.


They are much worse. They allow for torturing people without ever
leaving a trace. They should be illegal.

Anyway, do you really think that cops would even _consider_ shooting
somebody for minor misdemeanor? While I may be cynical at times, I
seriously doubt that. Tasers are not used instead of guns. They are
used instead of everything else, but not guns. No cop will reach for a
taser when he thinks a gun is in order.

[...]
--
Andrzej Rosa
  #8  
Old January 12th 09, 01:08 PM posted to misc.fitness.weights
Tom Anderson
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,436
Default OT but a good read. :-)

On Sun, 11 Jan 2009, Omelet wrote:

In article ,
Andrzej Rosa wrote:

Dnia 2009-01-11 Omelet napisał(a):
In article ,
Andrzej Rosa wrote:

On a related note. "Nasty ugly commies" weren't much given to torture
too. It could happen that if they caught a member of the gang they
would give him a good thrashing, just to help his memory you know, or
that an organizer of a political demonstration couldn't sit for a while
after they explained him how much they didn't like what he was trying to
do, but that were rare examples.

In your country though, causing extreme pain to citizens under the
slightest pretext is fairly common nowadays. They tell you to calm
down, or they will tase you, and they do. Many times in a row too.
Interesting, don't you think?

I'm not a fan of tasers, but after a lot of looking into them, they are
better than the alternative.


They are much worse. They allow for torturing people without ever
leaving a trace. They should be illegal.

Anyway, do you really think that cops would even _consider_ shooting
somebody for minor misdemeanor? While I may be cynical at times, I
seriously doubt that. Tasers are not used instead of guns. They are
used instead of everything else, but not guns. No cop will reach for a
taser when he thinks a gun is in order.


Yes, they do.


Really?

That sounds plausible, but then i thought about it. If the other guy has a
gun, you're not going to use a taser, are you? Because he has a weapon
with which he can kill you at decent range, whereas a taser is a weapon
which will cause pain or stun at close range. In gun vs taser, gun wins.
So a taser can't replace a gun there. If he doesn't have a gun, then a
taser is a useful option - but a gun would be an excessive response, so
you wouldn't use it. So a taser can't replace a gun there either. What am
i missing?

And on the other hand, there are documented cases of taser abuse (where
the use of a gun would be absolutely unthinkable) - those are situations
where a policeman used a taser instead of non-violent force. Here's one:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UCLA_Taser_incident

That could easily have been resolved by dragging the guy out of the
building, possibly in handcuffs. Instead, they electrocuted him.

That was my point.

Remember, I'm personally aquainted with them.
The cops that is, not tasers. g


Yes. That's why i'm not totally confident in your opinions.

tom

--
If it ain't Alberta, it ain't beef.
  #9  
Old January 12th 09, 10:56 PM posted to misc.fitness.weights
Andrzej Rosa
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,359
Default OT but a good read. :-)

Dnia 2009-01-12 Omelet napisał(a):
In article ,
Tom Anderson wrote:

[...]
Because he has a weapon
with which he can kill you at decent range, whereas a taser is a weapon
which will cause pain or stun at close range. In gun vs taser, gun wins.
So a taser can't replace a gun there. If he doesn't have a gun, then a
taser is a useful option - but a gun would be an excessive response, so
you wouldn't use it. So a taser can't replace a gun there either. What am
i missing?


See above. There are many cases where a taser will be used in place of a
gun if the level of force warrents it.

But, I also think that some cops abuse tasers. And those that do tend to
abuse their power in general and will eventually be drummed out of the
ranks.


This is even somehow group-related, so I'll say what I've seen on the
net. Two cops stop a guy in a car for something (I think speeding, but
I already forgot). The cop starts talking to the guy, but he's behaving
a bit strange, so they pull him out of the car to search him out. The
guy is huge and he does not cooperate (he looked like a powerlifter to
me). The cops try to convince him to allow them putting him in
handcuffs, but he's still not cooperating. The "talking" cop after
trying in vain to pull his arms off the car hood to put handcuffs on,
finally warns the guy that they will tase him if he will not comply. He
does not, they do, end of story.

So, what's the problem? The problem was that I actually *liked* the cop.
He was polite, quite professional, no "pig", If you now what I mean. He
was OK, and he tased a guy who was not attacking anybody, who was not
using any sort of violence whatsoever, verbal or physical. He was just
standing there, looking scary and not listened to orders.

So, I don't buy your story about several depraved cops who might abuse
the powers they possess. Power corrupts. Everybody.

(Of course, I don't think that whatever we see on the net is some kind
of atypical abuse. It very much looks like a normal way of using this
tool. You give people an order, they either listen or you cause them
extreme pain. That's how it really works, though your stories about
saving life of knifemen moved me to tears.)

[...]
--
Andrzej Rosa
  #10  
Old January 14th 09, 05:55 PM posted to misc.fitness.weights
Andrzej Rosa
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,359
Default OT but a good read. :-)

Dnia 2009-01-14 Omelet napisał(a):
In article ,
Andrzej Rosa wrote:

[...]
This is even somehow group-related, so I'll say what I've seen on the
net. Two cops stop a guy in a car for something (I think speeding, but
I already forgot). The cop starts talking to the guy, but he's behaving
a bit strange, so they pull him out of the car to search him out. The
guy is huge and he does not cooperate (he looked like a powerlifter to
me). The cops try to convince him to allow them putting him in
handcuffs, but he's still not cooperating. The "talking" cop after
trying in vain to pull his arms off the car hood to put handcuffs on,
finally warns the guy that they will tase him if he will not comply. He
does not, they do, end of story.


Well, would you rather they use batons on him?


Like some stinking commies? ;-/ (But surely it would hurt much less. I
haven't seen many tough guys literally wallowing in pain after being hit
by a baton. Hard kick in the nuts won't always do it, yet everybody hit
by taser goes down right now.)

I'm not convinced tho' that tasers should be used on people practicing
passive resistance. I have to wonder what the better course would be.

The cops don't want to get hurt either.


Where is your former stance, when you claimed that cops would only use
torture in extreme circumstance, to save lives? Suddenly saving
themselves some trouble is enough to cause a person extreme pain?

[...]
I, on the other hand, will do everything I can to keep from having one
used on me!


You mean you'll never take part in an organized demonstration against
taser use? It figures...

--
Andrzej Rosa
 




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