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shoulder exercise questions- doing enough?



 
 
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  #1  
Old January 17th 09, 03:09 AM posted to misc.fitness.weights
Andrzej Rosa
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,359
Default shoulder exercise questions- doing enough?

Dnia 2009-01-16 ed napisa≥(a):
my current routine is seriously simple- the only weight exercises i do
are bench press, bent over row, military press, and squat/deadlift.
also do abs and pullups. i do a mon-wed-fri routine, with bench,
rows, press everyday, and alternating squats and deadlift.

overall, i'm happy with the routine and making good progress, but my
front delts are getting huuooooge (well, relatively) compared to the
rest of my delts. any particular reason (other than looking like a
freak) to specifically target the side and rear delts?


Yes. Imbalanced shoulder musculature will lead to injury, sooner or
later.

--
Andrzej Rosa
  #2  
Old January 18th 09, 08:04 PM posted to misc.fitness.weights
Andrzej Rosa
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,359
Default shoulder exercise questions- doing enough?

Dnia 2009-01-18 ed napisa≥(a):
On Jan 16, 6:09*pm, Andrzej Rosa wrote:
Dnia 2009-01-16 ed napisa≥(a):

my current routine is seriously simple- the only weight exercises i do
are bench press, bent over row, military press, and squat/deadlift.
also do abs and pullups. * i do a mon-wed-fri routine, with bench,
rows, press everyday, and alternating squats and deadlift.


overall, i'm happy with the routine and making good progress, but my
front delts are getting huuooooge (well, relatively) compared to the
rest of my delts. *any particular reason (other than looking like a
freak) to specifically target the side and rear delts?


Yes. *Imbalanced shoulder musculature will lead to injury, sooner or
later. *


any suggestions for exercises? thanks!


The rule of thumb is to balance every pushing move with one pulling
(bench-rows, shoulder press - chinups and so on). Another rule of thumb
is that you make the best progress with the first exercise of your
workout, so if you need more emphasize on pulling, do pulls before
presses. If you want more emphasize on side delts, you may consider
side-presses and one-armed pushups instead of military press. Beside
that you may always add a set of bent-over flyes or side laterals
(cables work well for those) and you should be fine, though I can't
promise anything. Keeping shoulders healthy is an art form, at least
for some people.

--
Andrzej Rosa
  #3  
Old January 18th 09, 09:16 PM posted to misc.fitness.weights
Andrzej Rosa
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,359
Default shoulder exercise questions- doing enough?

Dnia 2009-01-18 Omelet napisa≥(a):
In article
,
ed wrote:

Yes. *Imbalanced shoulder musculature will lead to injury, sooner or
later. *


any suggestions for exercises? thanks!


Shrugs for a start. Lateral dumbell fly's for medial deltoids. Upright
cable rows will work both Traps and rear delts if done properly.

You are most likely focusing too much on flat bench press. It's not
uncommon to over-develop the front deltoids doing that move. Consider
switching to incline bench for awhile.


Inclines actually are more shoulder-oriented than flat bench, especially
if you tend to use a lot of arch during flat-benching. Theoretically
declines would be better, but in practice learning to arch your back
should suffice. You can't lower the bar below your chest anyway, so
declines are less different than it seems.

--
Andrzej Rosa
  #4  
Old January 19th 09, 12:12 AM posted to misc.fitness.weights
Tom Anderson
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Posts: 1,436
Default shoulder exercise questions- doing enough?

On Sun, 18 Jan 2009, Omelet wrote:

In article
,
ed wrote:

On Jan 16, 6:09*pm, Andrzej Rosa wrote:
Dnia 2009-01-16 ed napisa≥(a):

my current routine is seriously simple- the only weight exercises i do
are bench press, bent over row, military press, and squat/deadlift.
also do abs and pullups. * i do a mon-wed-fri routine, with bench,
rows, press everyday, and alternating squats and deadlift.

overall, i'm happy with the routine and making good progress, but my
front delts are getting huuooooge (well, relatively) compared to the
rest of my delts. *any particular reason (other than looking like a
freak) to specifically target the side and rear delts?

Yes. *Imbalanced shoulder musculature will lead to injury, sooner or
later. *


any suggestions for exercises? thanks!


Shrugs for a start. Lateral dumbell fly's for medial deltoids. Upright
cable rows will work both Traps and rear delts if done properly.


Or improperly - isn't it traps and medial delts if done properly? I guess
what you want is something between an upright row and a normal row, a sort
of diagonal row, that hits both medial and rear delts. Or side raises done
while leaning forward a bit, so that they use rear delts as well as
medial.

You are most likely focusing too much on flat bench press. It's not
uncommon to over-develop the front deltoids doing that move. Consider
switching to incline bench for awhile.


Isn't incline bench even more active for the front delts than flat? I
think it should either be a decline bench or chest dips.

And in any case, isn't it the military press that's giving him most of his
front delt stimulation?

Random observation: why do we say front and rear delts, but medial (or
lateral) rather than middle (or side)? It bugs me. INCONSISTENCY!

tom

--
Right place, right time, wrong speed.
  #5  
Old January 19th 09, 12:55 PM posted to misc.fitness.weights
Andrzej Rosa
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,359
Default shoulder exercise questions- doing enough?

Dnia 2009-01-19 ed napisa≥(a):
On Jan 18, 11:04*am, Andrzej Rosa wrote:

The rule of thumb is to balance every pushing move with one pulling
(bench-rows, shoulder press - chinups and so on). *Another rule of thumb
is that you make the best progress with the first exercise of your
workout, so if you need more emphasize on pulling, do pulls before
presses. *If you want more emphasize on side delts, you may consider
side-presses and one-armed pushups instead of military press. *Beside
that you may always add a set of bent-over flyes or side laterals
(cables work well for those) and you should be fine, though I can't
promise anything. *Keeping shoulders healthy is an art form, at least
for some people.


hmmm.... i've been trying to focus more on big, bad, compound
exercises- get in and out of the gym in 1 hour total- that's about 45
minutes weights, 10-15 minutes burpees, abs, etc. so do delts really
need more isolation to be well balanced than other muscles (well, mine
obviously do, given my relatively outsized front delts, but in
general, is this the case)?


Shoulders much prefer having muscles surrounding the joint developed in
balance. How you are going to get it is pretty much up to you. You may
add isolation, you may remove some big compound exercise, you may find a
combination of big compound moves which gives you a balanced
development, so if you prefer big moves, do one-armed snatches instead of
a military press for a while. One-armed because it's much easier and puts
slightly more emphasize on upper body than an Oly snatch. (Lower the
weight using both hands, since you probably can't just drop it. Trying
to control the drop with one arm only is a bad idea.)

If you don't want to add, be ready to remove or at least replace.
That's how it works.

--
Andrzej Rosa
  #6  
Old January 19th 09, 12:57 PM posted to misc.fitness.weights
Andrzej Rosa
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,359
Default shoulder exercise questions- doing enough?

Dnia 2009-01-18 Tom Anderson napisa≥(a):
Yes. *Imbalanced shoulder musculature will lead to injury, sooner or
later. *

any suggestions for exercises? thanks!


Shrugs for a start. Lateral dumbell fly's for medial deltoids. Upright
cable rows will work both Traps and rear delts if done properly.


Or improperly - isn't it traps and medial delts if done properly? I guess
what you want is something between an upright row and a normal row, a sort
of diagonal row, that hits both medial and rear delts.


It's called a face pull, if you do it on a low pulley.

[...]
--
Andrzej Rosa
  #7  
Old January 19th 09, 03:49 PM posted to misc.fitness.weights
Jim Janney[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 477
Default shoulder exercise questions- doing enough?

ed writes:

On Jan 18, 11:04¬*am, Andrzej Rosa wrote:
Dnia 2009-01-18 ed napisa³(a):



On Jan 16, 6:09¬*pm, Andrzej Rosa wrote:
Dnia 2009-01-16 ed napisa³(a):


my current routine is seriously simple- the only weight exercises i do
are bench press, bent over row, military press, and squat/deadlift.
also do abs and pullups. ¬* i do a mon-wed-fri routine, with bench,
rows, press everyday, and alternating squats and deadlift.


overall, i'm happy with the routine and making good progress, but my
front delts are getting huuooooge (well, relatively) compared to the
rest of my delts. ¬*any particular reason (other than looking like a
freak) to specifically target the side and rear delts?


Yes. ¬*Imbalanced shoulder musculature will lead to injury, sooner or
later. ¬*


any suggestions for exercises? ¬*thanks!


The rule of thumb is to balance every pushing move with one pulling
(bench-rows, shoulder press - chinups and so on). ¬*Another rule of thumb
is that you make the best progress with the first exercise of your
workout, so if you need more emphasize on pulling, do pulls before
presses. ¬*If you want more emphasize on side delts, you may consider
side-presses and one-armed pushups instead of military press. ¬*Beside
that you may always add a set of bent-over flyes or side laterals
(cables work well for those) and you should be fine, though I can't
promise anything. ¬*Keeping shoulders healthy is an art form, at least
for some people.


hmmm.... i've been trying to focus more on big, bad, compound
exercises- get in and out of the gym in 1 hour total- that's about 45
minutes weights, 10-15 minutes burpees, abs, etc. so do delts really
need more isolation to be well balanced than other muscles (well, mine
obviously do, given my relatively outsized front delts, but in
general, is this the case)?


Try some Turkish Getups. They're great for the shoulders, and as
compound as an exercise can get. It isn't necessary to stand all the
way up; you can get good benefits just from moving to a sitting or
kneeling position.

http://www.tacticalathlete.com/tguarticle.htm

--
Jim Janney
  #8  
Old January 19th 09, 07:15 PM posted to misc.fitness.weights
Andrzej Rosa
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,359
Default shoulder exercise questions- doing enough?

Dnia 2009-01-19 ed napisa≥(a):
[...]
Try some Turkish Getups. *They're great for the shoulders, and as
compound as an exercise can get. *It isn't necessary to stand all the
way up; you can get good benefits just from moving to a sitting or
kneeling position.

* *http://www.tacticalathlete.com/tguarticle.htm


i actually do these at home, because i keep reading all over the place
that they're good for shoulder flexibility (which i'm working on- i
want to do overhead squats, but i'm not even close to being able to do
them), but they don't seem to be doing much for me.


My shoulder flexibility used to suck big time too. It really sucked, I
mean it. Overhead presses were a stretch for me, but I managed to work
on it till I was able to do squat snatches, which I think is within the
OK zone. I started with side-presses, then moved to a *******ized form
of a bent press and one-arm snatch. Then I was almost able to do
one-armed overhead squats, so I worked myself up to it. Once I was good
for squats, I did them very often, which earned me the ability to catch a
weight in a full squat.

The good news is that I was able to vastly improve my shoulder
flexibility. The bad news is that my iffy shoulder stayed iffy.
Prevention is much easier than damage control. Really.

maybe i need to
up the weight (only using a 20kg kettlebell)...


Do that. Every time you can, up the weight. This should keep you
motivated and focused on improvements. Besides, doing TGUs with a
loaded barbell looks mighty cool.

--
Andrzej Rosa
  #9  
Old January 19th 09, 08:42 PM posted to misc.fitness.weights
Jim Janney[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 477
Default shoulder exercise questions- doing enough?

ed writes:

On Jan 19, 6:49¬*am, Jim Janney wrote:
ed writes:
On Jan 18, 11:04¬*am, Andrzej Rosa wrote:
Dnia 2009-01-18 ed napisa³(a):


On Jan 16, 6:09¬*pm, Andrzej Rosa wrote:
Dnia 2009-01-16 ed napisa³(a):


my current routine is seriously simple- the only weight exercises i do
are bench press, bent over row, military press, and squat/deadlift.
also do abs and pullups. ¬* i do a mon-wed-fri routine, with bench,
rows, press everyday, and alternating squats and deadlift.


overall, i'm happy with the routine and making good progress, but my
front delts are getting huuooooge (well, relatively) compared to the
rest of my delts. ¬*any particular reason (other than looking like a
freak) to specifically target the side and rear delts?


Yes. ¬*Imbalanced shoulder musculature will lead to injury, sooner or
later. ¬*


any suggestions for exercises? ¬*thanks!


The rule of thumb is to balance every pushing move with one pulling
(bench-rows, shoulder press - chinups and so on). ¬*Another rule of thumb
is that you make the best progress with the first exercise of your
workout, so if you need more emphasize on pulling, do pulls before
presses. ¬*If you want more emphasize on side delts, you may consider
side-presses and one-armed pushups instead of military press. ¬*Beside
that you may always add a set of bent-over flyes or side laterals
(cables work well for those) and you should be fine, though I can't
promise anything. ¬*Keeping shoulders healthy is an art form, at least
for some people.


hmmm.... ¬*i've been trying to focus more on big, bad, compound
exercises- get in and out of the gym in 1 hour total- that's about 45
minutes weights, 10-15 minutes burpees, abs, etc. ¬*so do delts really
need more isolation to be well balanced than other muscles (well, mine
obviously do, given my relatively outsized front delts, but in
general, is this the case)?


Try some Turkish Getups. ¬*They're great for the shoulders, and as
compound as an exercise can get. ¬*It isn't necessary to stand all the
way up; you can get good benefits just from moving to a sitting or
kneeling position.

¬* ¬*http://www.tacticalathlete.com/tguarticle.htm


i actually do these at home, because i keep reading all over the place
that they're good for shoulder flexibility (which i'm working on- i
want to do overhead squats, but i'm not even close to being able to do
them), but they don't seem to be doing much for me. maybe i need to
up the weight (only using a 20kg kettlebell)...


I hadn't thought of them as a flexibility exercise, but my shoulders
are pretty flexible anyway. I like them for the way they make me keep
the shoulder down and locked, which is good for shoulder safety in
general. Heavy is better here, I think. Doing partials lets you go
even heavier.

--
Jim Janney
  #10  
Old January 19th 09, 10:56 PM posted to misc.fitness.weights
Andrzej Rosa
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,359
Default shoulder exercise questions- doing enough?

Dnia 2009-01-19 ed napisa≥(a):
On Jan 19, 10:15*am, Andrzej Rosa wrote:

My shoulder flexibility used to suck big time too. *It really sucked, I
mean it. *Overhead presses were a stretch for me, but I managed to work
on it till I was able to do squat snatches, which I think is within the
OK zone. *I started with side-presses, then moved to a *******ized form
of a bent press and one-arm snatch. *Then I was almost able to do
one-armed overhead squats, so I worked myself up to it. *Once I was good
for squats, I did them very often, which earned me the ability to catch a
weight in a full squat. *


glad to hear some hope- i've been working the shoulder flexibility
mostly with dislocates, without much luck. i'll have to try some more
weight bearing exercises that work it.

what were you doing for 'side press' were you doing? - i've heard side
presses described as everything from basically a regular dumbell
press, to something that looks just like a bent press, without going
down as far..


I did it using "get it up any way you can without bending your knees"
style.

[...]
Do that. *Every time you can, up the weight. *This should keep you
motivated and focused on improvements. *Besides, doing TGUs with a
loaded barbell looks mighty cool.


yeah, i guess i'll buck up and do them more (with more weight). i
just don't find them very fun.


Then switch to something you find fun, which also demands good shoulder
flexibility. In the long run fun factor is rather crucial.

Anyway, Burt Lancaster used to be able to do TGUs with almost his
bodyweight. Nothing special for a circus hand-balancer, and he used to
work as one.

--
Andrzej Rosa
 




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