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Barefoot Walking - Advice please



 
 
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  #101  
Old October 4th 05, 06:17 PM
AndyP
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"Peter Clinch" wrote

Dewi wrote:

And people who use clip on ties, since they are aware of the risk, in
their job.


If they do jobs where a full tie is likely to be a problem. Police, for
example, stand a better than usual chance of fighting violent people so
it makes sense to wear a clip-on.

Have to laugh at you really, started off as a compass lanyard around
the neck in the wilds, to a tie...


Your problem is that you can't see that there's just as much danger
lurking around an office as on a hillside when it comes to getting
accidentally strangled. That is finite, but very, very low. So while
you're laughing you fail to see that it's in the same ballpark and put
in a good paranoid turn about a non-problem.

Seems to sum up a cyclist view...I'm right, I know; your not, you
don't. Sadly, that's how I now see you.


"Inaccurately", then. Bit like your ideas of risk assessment.


You know I reckon you could keep this argument going until Xmas just by
saying the same thing over and over. Wouldn't that be cool.


  #102  
Old October 4th 05, 06:28 PM
Paul Rooney
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On Tue, 4 Oct 2005 17:17:36 +0100, "AndyP"
wrote:

"Peter Clinch" wrote

Dewi wrote:

And people who use clip on ties, since they are aware of the risk, in
their job.


If they do jobs where a full tie is likely to be a problem. Police, for
example, stand a better than usual chance of fighting violent people so
it makes sense to wear a clip-on.

Have to laugh at you really, started off as a compass lanyard around
the neck in the wilds, to a tie...


Your problem is that you can't see that there's just as much danger
lurking around an office as on a hillside when it comes to getting
accidentally strangled. That is finite, but very, very low. So while
you're laughing you fail to see that it's in the same ballpark and put
in a good paranoid turn about a non-problem.

Seems to sum up a cyclist view...I'm right, I know; your not, you
don't. Sadly, that's how I now see you.


"Inaccurately", then. Bit like your ideas of risk assessment.


You know I reckon you could keep this argument going until Xmas just by
saying the same thing over and over. Wouldn't that be cool.


I KF-ed the know-it-all wa*ker months ago for continuously repeating
the same absurd drivel in every discussion he engaged in. There's only
so much tedium one can take!
--

Paul Rooney
  #103  
Old October 4th 05, 07:17 PM
Peewiglet
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On Tue, 4 Oct 2005 17:17:36 +0100, "AndyP"
wrote:

"Peter Clinch" wrote

Dewi wrote:

And people who use clip on ties, since they are aware of the risk, in
their job.


If they do jobs where a full tie is likely to be a problem. Police, for
example, stand a better than usual chance of fighting violent people so
it makes sense to wear a clip-on.

Have to laugh at you really, started off as a compass lanyard around
the neck in the wilds, to a tie...


Your problem is that you can't see that there's just as much danger
lurking around an office as on a hillside when it comes to getting
accidentally strangled. That is finite, but very, very low. So while
you're laughing you fail to see that it's in the same ballpark and put
in a good paranoid turn about a non-problem.

Seems to sum up a cyclist view...I'm right, I know; your not, you
don't. Sadly, that's how I now see you.


"Inaccurately", then. Bit like your ideas of risk assessment.


You know I reckon you could keep this argument going until Xmas just by
saying the same thing over and over. Wouldn't that be cool.

http://www.leconcombre.com/board/cyb...upingpong.html again


Wet fishes,
--
,,
(**)PeeWiglet~~
/ \ / \ pee AT [guessthisbit].co.uk

"Is our children learning?"
g.w.AT [guessthisbit].com
  #104  
Old October 4th 05, 08:54 PM
Roger
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The message
from Alan Dicey contains
these words:

I doubt if you would find anyone climbing in a full set of nails in 1961
although when I went on a winter course at Plas y Brenin that year the
stock boots had nailed heels. As I was using my own boots I suffered
traction control problems in situations where the others had no trouble
whatsoever.


She talks in the book about 1955: "The weather was mixed that May, but
June and Whitsun arrived in a blaze of sunshine. Vibrams replaced nails
and again I knew the pure delight of Gimmer on a still hot day . . ."
So she, at least, was climbing in nailed boots in 1955.


Doesn't Whit Sunday always fall in May?

Nails in Winter perhaps in the days before crampons took hold. They also
have some advantage on green and greasy rock.

I first went to the Lakes (as a child) in the early 50s and I can still
remember the display window of a (the?) climbing shop in Ambleside on
the first visit. Pride of place was a hulking great pair leather boots
sporting a full set of nails. Even then I think they were on the way out
for rock climbing.

As I said previously that photograph must have been taken no later than
1958. That is the publication date of the book I found it in - JEB
Wrights 'Rock Climbing in Britain'. The picture is attributed to
"Illustrated" but I can't recall whether Illustrated was a picture
agency or a picture magazine (or even both).


The Penguin book attributes the cover photo to John Lees, copyright
Popperfoto.


Curious. Lees was at one time Mr Moffat but if I have got my chronology
right that would have been post 1958.

A search of Popperfotos site brings up only one photo of Gwen Moffatt
and it wasn't the one in question.

A site selling old copies of Illustrated magazine had an article on a
Gwen of the mountains which just might have been the original source but
I don't care enough to waste 4 on buying a copy.

"Illustrated, No 52 Vol XVII, February 18 1956 : London, Odhams Press,
1956. All magazines in various degrees may suffer from turned page
corners, slight soiling, minor tears, coupons clipped, staples rusted
etc. This copy has staples rusted away at centre and centre pages
loose. Contents include: do we pay enough for law and order, Jesus of
Nazareth, The shopgirl debs are coming out in cabaret, The Queen in
Nigeria, Reunion for spies, It does you good to let off steam [Gilbert
Harding], Gwen of the mountains knows the way to the top, Push-buttons
take the toil out of work : Plus other reports and columns."


--
Roger Chapman so far this year 53 summits
New - 27 (Marilyns 13, Nuttalls 5, Outlying Fells 10)
Repeats - 26 (Marilyns 10, Nuttalls 17, Wainwrights 12, Outlying Fells 0)
  #105  
Old October 4th 05, 09:45 PM
Dominic Sexton
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In article , Roger
writes
The message
from Alan Dicey contains
these words:
She talks in the book about 1955: "The weather was mixed that May, but
June and Whitsun arrived in a blaze of sunshine. Vibrams replaced nails
and again I knew the pure delight of Gimmer on a still hot day . . ."
So she, at least, was climbing in nailed boots in 1955.


Doesn't Whit Sunday always fall in May?


Well no. Whit Sunday is seven weeks after Easter so if Easter is on or
later than 13 April Whit Sunday is in June.

However Easter in 1955 was 10 April making Whit Sunday 29 May. Sounds
like a slip of detail or words to me.

Easter dates for the weirdos like me:

http://www.smart.net/~mmontes/freq3.html

--

Dominic Sexton
  #106  
Old October 4th 05, 09:49 PM
Peter Clinch
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Paul Rooney wrote:

I KF-ed the know-it-all wa*ker months ago for continuously repeating
the same absurd drivel in every discussion he engaged in.


Well, if I ****ed Rooney off /that/ much then I must be doing
*something* right... ;-)

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
  #107  
Old October 4th 05, 09:51 PM
Peter Clinch
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AndyP wrote:

You know I reckon you could keep this argument going until Xmas just by
saying the same thing over and over. Wouldn't that be cool.


Not really, point taken on this one...

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
  #108  
Old October 5th 05, 12:19 AM
Alan Dicey
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Roger wrote:


Nails in Winter perhaps in the days before crampons took hold. They also
have some advantage on green and greasy rock.


I suspect the latter. "Commando" soles were distrusted by the old guard
for their lack of adhesion on wet rock.

I first went to the Lakes (as a child) in the early 50s and I can still
remember the display window of a (the?) climbing shop in Ambleside on
the first visit. Pride of place was a hulking great pair leather boots
sporting a full set of nails. Even then I think they were on the way out
for rock climbing.


My 1960 Poucher "Lakeland Peaks" has two photos and a paragraph on boot
nailing, and a single sentence "Commando soles and heels in hard rubber
are now very popular, but on wet rock may be dangerous". However in my
third edition "Scottish Peaks" (1971) he has photos of Robert
Lawrie-made Vibram soled boots. So nails were still in use by Poucher
and his ilk in the early '60's.




As I said previously that photograph must have been taken no later than
1958. That is the publication date of the book I found it in - JEB
Wrights 'Rock Climbing in Britain'. The picture is attributed to
"Illustrated" but I can't recall whether Illustrated was a picture
agency or a picture magazine (or even both).



The Penguin book attributes the cover photo to John Lees, copyright
Popperfoto.



Curious. Lees was at one time Mr Moffat but if I have got my chronology
right that would have been post 1958.


Gwen doesn't give many clues about the year date in the whole of "Space
Below My Feet", but she describes meeting Johnnie Lees several years
before becoming a professional guide, so early - to - mid fifties. She
describes him as having just taken over the RAF Mountain Rescue unit at
Valley.

The Detective Fiction site

http://www.detective-fiction.com/gwen-moffat.htm

declares her marriage to John Lees as dating from 1956.
  #109  
Old October 5th 05, 10:17 AM
Peter Clinch
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Roger wrote:

Nails in Winter perhaps in the days before crampons took hold. They also
have some advantage on green and greasy rock.


ICBW, but I think nails were basically what you generally had the whole
time. Crampons did exist in the days of nailed boots, but were
considered "cheating" and "unethical" in a similar manner to a second
axe, rather than an ice dagger!

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

  #110  
Old October 5th 05, 09:53 PM
Roger
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The message
from Alan Dicey contains
these words:

snip

I first went to the Lakes (as a child) in the early 50s and I can still
remember the display window of a (the?) climbing shop in Ambleside on
the first visit. Pride of place was a hulking great pair leather boots
sporting a full set of nails. Even then I think they were on the way out
for rock climbing.


My 1960 Poucher "Lakeland Peaks" has two photos and a paragraph on boot
nailing, and a single sentence "Commando soles and heels in hard rubber
are now very popular, but on wet rock may be dangerous". However in my
third edition "Scottish Peaks" (1971) he has photos of Robert
Lawrie-made Vibram soled boots. So nails were still in use by Poucher
and his ilk in the early '60's.


I am amazed that Poucher should have been peddling such outdated ideas
as late as 1965. My first real contact with climbers was in 1960 and
neither then nor in the following few years can I recall seeing any
climber in nails. I also have a copy of Scottish Peaks, in my case the
5th edition published 1979, and he is still going on about nailed boots
and the perils of vibrams on wet rock or moss. His paean in praise of
boots would be enough to give Pete apoplexy. :-)

I couldn't see the advert for Lawries boots though so perhaps he had
second thoughts about giving them such prominence. In my never ending
search for comfortable boots I once made the trip to London to buy a
pair of his boots but I was sorely disappointed in what I got. :-)


As I said previously that photograph must have been taken no later than
1958. That is the publication date of the book I found it in - JEB
Wrights 'Rock Climbing in Britain'. The picture is attributed to
"Illustrated" but I can't recall whether Illustrated was a picture
agency or a picture magazine (or even both).


The Penguin book attributes the cover photo to John Lees, copyright
Popperfoto.



Curious. Lees was at one time Mr Moffat but if I have got my chronology
right that would have been post 1958.


Gwen doesn't give many clues about the year date in the whole of "Space
Below My Feet", but she describes meeting Johnnie Lees several years
before becoming a professional guide, so early - to - mid fifties. She
describes him as having just taken over the RAF Mountain Rescue unit at
Valley.


IIRC (and given my track record on this subject perhaps not) he would
have been 2IC. He would have been the senior NCO and there would have
been a commissioned officer in the background pretending to be in
charge.

The Detective Fiction site


http://www.detective-fiction.com/gwen-moffat.htm


declares her marriage to John Lees as dating from 1956.


I did wonder when I wrote the previous message. We had him as principal
guest at a club dinner in the early 70s and (again IIRC) he was already
the ex.

--
Roger Chapman so far this year 53 summits
New - 27 (Marilyns 13, Nuttalls 5, Outlying Fells 10)
Repeats - 26 (Marilyns 10, Nuttalls 17, Wainwrights 12, Outlying Fells 0)
 




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