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  #11  
Old October 13th 04, 10:05 PM
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On Tue, 12 Oct 2004 11:45:07 GMT, bunnyKilla
wrote:

wrote:

Hello,

I am a 32 year old male who in the past has not really exercised that
much. But now I'm in my 30's I'm more conscious of my fitness and want
to try and get a routine going to help me feel fit.

Problem is, I don't know what sort of routine to get into. I do a
mixture of press-ups, situps and wave my arms about a bit, but I would
like some kind of structure to my routine so I know I'm not doing it
by half measure, or doing too much.

If anyone can give me some advice, I'd appreciate the guidance!

Thanks,

Sean


Hi Sean, you could join gym, go two or three times a week spending
40mins on the weights/machines then twenty mins on the cardio stuff ie
exercise bikes, treadmill etc.

Its a good idea to do some weights because as we age our muscle mass
declines naturally. And ofcourse cardio is good for the heart/lungs etc.

Phil


Thanks Phil, I had a friend who had weights but at the time it wasn't
something I'd considered doing. I think joining a gym might be the way
to go, maybe try and get a friend to join me as I don't really want to
go on my own

Cheers

Sean
  #12  
Old October 13th 04, 10:06 PM
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On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 18:44:50 +1000, "Peter Webb"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .
Hello,

I am a 32 year old male who in the past has not really exercised that
much. But now I'm in my 30's I'm more conscious of my fitness and want
to try and get a routine going to help me feel fit.

Problem is, I don't know what sort of routine to get into. I do a
mixture of press-ups, situps and wave my arms about a bit, but I would
like some kind of structure to my routine so I know I'm not doing it
by half measure, or doing too much.

If anyone can give me some advice, I'd appreciate the guidance!

Thanks,

Sean


Wander over to misc.fitness.weights where this question is asked (and
answered) all the time.

BTW, I can't believe that the main responses you have had are about the
safety of weights. Weightlifting is an extremely safe sport, with
overwhelmingly positive effects on the body. I took it up five years ago at
43, and have never had an injury - the only effect has been to make me fit,
help me lose fat, and make my muscles hyuge. Meanwhile my friends who took
up Over 35 soccer have all had multiple knee reconstructions, and are most
certainly not hyuge.

You are right to want some structure - you get far, far better results if
you know what you are doing. There are many web pages for exactly this
purpose, but as I say if you subscribe to misc.fitness.weights you will see
somebody posting an answer to this question in the next few days, or you can
just ask it yourself there.



Thanks, I'll read that group and see what info there is.

Cheers,

Sean
  #13  
Old October 14th 04, 09:57 AM
bunnyKilla
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Thanks Phil, I had a friend who had weights but at the time it wasn't
something I'd considered doing. I think joining a gym might be the way
to go, maybe try and get a friend to join me as I don't really want to
go on my own

Cheers

Sean


Try to go, even if its on your own, gyms are pretty friendly places in
my experience.

Weights and cardio go hand in hand, they compliment each othe perfectly.

Phil
  #14  
Old October 14th 04, 10:00 AM
bunnyKilla
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Thanks, I'll read that group and see what info there is.

Cheers,

Sean


Look for reading material from Stuart Mcrobert, brooks kubiks.
Muscletalk website is a great place to start too.

phil
  #15  
Old October 14th 04, 03:13 PM
Peter Webb
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"Eric Riehl" wrote in message
...
One of the things you always read in any weight lifting
book is to be sure to have a spotter when you lift
weights. Would the all the books on weight lifting include
this advice, which thay are say is essential, if there wasn't
the potential for injury if control was lost of the pig iron
being used in the exercise? I think not.

Eric Riehl


For somebody with such a pretentious turn of phrase, you really aren't that
bright.

Firstly, lets analyse your statement from the perspective of somebody who
knows nothing about weightlifting (eg you).

How is your statement different from:

"All the books on breathing contain this advice, which they say is
essential, that you should breathe deeply from your solar plexus. If
breathing wasn't dangerous, would they include this advice? I think not".

"All the books on eating contain this advice, which they say is essential,
that you should chew your food many times before swallowing. If eating
wasn't dangerous, would they say this? I think not".

Or even:

"All the books on watching the football on TV contain this advice, which
they say is essential, to have a remote control and beer handy before the
game begins. If watching football on TV wasn't dangerous, would they include
this advice? I think not"

So even somebody who knows nothing about the subject (eg you) could work out
that your statement EVEN IF TRUE proved nothing about safety.

Somebody who does know something about the subject (eg me) could well pipe
up with comments like:

If you have some fear of crushing yourself to death, why don't you:

* Not go to failure! OR
* Use machines! OR
* Use dumbells not barbells! OR
* Use a goddam spotter!

What we definitely don't need is some asshole trying to talk him out of
weightlifting (or breating, or eating, or watching football on TV) because
it may be dangerous. Its not.




  #16  
Old October 14th 04, 04:10 PM
Eric Riehl
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On 2004-10-14, Peter Webb wrote:
For somebody with such a pretentious turn of phrase, you really aren't that
bright.

Firstly, lets analyse your statement from the perspective of somebody who
knows nothing about weightlifting (eg you).


"All the books on breathing contain this advice, which they say is
essential, that you should breathe deeply from your solar plexus. If
breathing wasn't dangerous, would they include this advice? I think not".

"All the books on eating contain this advice, which they say is essential,
that you should chew your food many times before swallowing. If eating
wasn't dangerous, would they say this? I think not".

Or even:

"All the books on watching the football on TV contain this advice, which
they say is essential, to have a remote control and beer handy before the
game begins. If watching football on TV wasn't dangerous, would they include
this advice? I think not"

So even somebody who knows nothing about the subject (eg you) could work out
that your statement EVEN IF TRUE proved nothing about safety.

Somebody who does know something about the subject (eg me) could well pipe
up with comments like:

If you have some fear of crushing yourself to death, why don't you:

* Not go to failure! OR
* Use machines! OR
* Use dumbells not barbells! OR
* Use a goddam spotter!

What we definitely don't need is some asshole trying to talk him out of
weightlifting (or breating, or eating, or watching football on TV) because
it may be dangerous. Its not.




Hi Peter,

Thanks for responding to my post.

I think you've misread the books you talk about. I think
the recommendation for breathing from the solar plexus is
allow air to enter the lungs efficiently without cramping
the internal organs, not because taking a breath not from
the solar plexus will lead to an injury.

The books the recommend chewing your food before you swallow
say that it aids digestion because the food is broken into
small pieces. The effects of not chewing your food
will be that less might be absorbed in the digestive
tract, not the you will be injured.

The books on watching football on TV, well I've been able
to figures out how to do that on my own without reading
books, I think getting the remote is so that your wife
can't change the channel to something like ice dancing
at an exciting point in the game, and the beer --- well
people know why they like to drink.

The books on weight lifting say to use a spotter and give
stories of injuries the authors observed when a spotter
wasn't used.

You can also try this experiement. Ask a staff member at
a gym is weight lifting is safe, and most likely the
staff member will respond it is, but only if good technique
is used.

Now, tell another staff member that you have trouble finding
a spotter sometimes and just lift without one. The staff
member will probably go off with stories of terrible
injuries they saw in the gym of heard about when somebody
didn't use a spotter.

About your advice. Not going to failure will not produce
results as noticable as going to failure. Using machines
tends to make individual muscles stronger, but ignores
muscles which are used with these individual muscles in real
life situations. That's why many trainers advise against using
machines. About barbells, although hearing a story about
somebody's chest being crushed because he or she did bench
presses without a spotter and was unable to get the weight
to the supports after the last rep might casue somebody to
shift to dumbells, but they still are a lot of weight.

As I said in a previous post, weights are very effective
at making a person stronger, because once you learn an exercise,
you can make it more difficult by just increasing the weight
being used. A person who has been lifting for awhile probably
knows several exercies for each major muscles group that
he or she can do with good form, and rotates between them.

But, the physiology books says that what makes a person stronger
is progressive overload. After you get strong enought to do an
exercise, you need to change to a more difficult exercise (here
adding more weight if your lifting weights is considered a
more difficult exercise) if you want to continue to increase
your strength. (Body building is a bit different, because
there the goal is to get the biggest muscles possible, not the
strongest muscles possible, which isn't to say that
body builders aren't very strong.)

I think the effectiveness of weights has made strength trainers
a bit lazy in looking for alternative methods of strength training
that don't use weights. Consider aerobic activites. If somebody
doesn't like to do, say step aerobics, you can recommend cycling,
tread mill, brisk walking, inline skating, or any number of
alternative ways to increase cardio fitness.

What do weight lifters say to somebody who wants an alternative
to weight lifting? Here it's been something like "shut up and
lift the weights." or "would you rather play tiddlywinks?"

Eric Riehl
  #17  
Old October 15th 04, 07:57 PM
Eric Riehl
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I just want to add to the comments I made yesterday in response
to Peter Webb's comments. Some books that talk about breathing give
additional insights on their recommended method of breathing.
For example Mable E. Todd's book, _The Thinking Body_ subtitled
_A study of the Balancing Forces of Dynamic Man_ recommends breathing
by visualizing the horizontally oriented diaphram as a piston moving
down when a person inhales and moving out as a person exhales. She
then traces all the effects of breating improperly by holding the
chest high and shows how that would cause the pelvis to tilt forward
farther than is optimal and even cause the liopsoas and obturator pyriformis
muscle groups to incorrectly center the femor in the actabulum, so that
effeciency of movement is reduced.

For somebody who wants to do well in athletic competition or dance
smoothly this increase in effeciency is important. For a body builder,
the lines of the body would be improved if the pelvis were tilted
forward less. In the long run, bad body alignment would probably
also lead to an in increased chance of injury, so Peter is also
correct that breathing incorrectly is less safe than breathing
correctly.

--Eric Riehl

On 2004-10-14, Eric Riehl wrote:
On 2004-10-14, Peter Webb wrote:
"All the books on breathing contain this advice, which they say is
essential, that you should breathe deeply from your solar plexus. If
breathing wasn't dangerous, would they include this advice? I think not".


Thanks for responding to my post.

I think you've misread the books you talk about. I think
the recommendation for breathing from the solar plexus is
allow air to enter the lungs efficiently without cramping
the internal organs, not because taking a breath not from
the solar plexus will lead to an injury.

  #18  
Old October 15th 04, 09:24 PM
Mack McKinnon
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Most people will greatly improve their body alignment, breathing and relieve
a lot of pressure on their lower backs if they will just do one thing: relax
their ab muscles. Let those abs go and your pelvis drops into its natural
alignment. You walk & stand differently. Takes a little while to change
the habit of keeping the abs tight all the time but it's well worth it.

mack
austin


"Eric Riehl" wrote in message
...
I just want to add to the comments I made yesterday in response
to Peter Webb's comments. Some books that talk about breathing give
additional insights on their recommended method of breathing.
For example Mable E. Todd's book, _The Thinking Body_ subtitled
_A study of the Balancing Forces of Dynamic Man_ recommends breathing
by visualizing the horizontally oriented diaphram as a piston moving
down when a person inhales and moving out as a person exhales. She
then traces all the effects of breating improperly by holding the
chest high and shows how that would cause the pelvis to tilt forward
farther than is optimal and even cause the liopsoas and obturator

pyriformis
muscle groups to incorrectly center the femor in the actabulum, so that
effeciency of movement is reduced.

For somebody who wants to do well in athletic competition or dance
smoothly this increase in effeciency is important. For a body builder,
the lines of the body would be improved if the pelvis were tilted
forward less. In the long run, bad body alignment would probably
also lead to an in increased chance of injury, so Peter is also
correct that breathing incorrectly is less safe than breathing
correctly.

--Eric Riehl

On 2004-10-14, Eric Riehl wrote:
On 2004-10-14, Peter Webb wrote:
"All the books on breathing contain this advice, which they say is
essential, that you should breathe deeply from your solar plexus. If
breathing wasn't dangerous, would they include this advice? I think

not".

Thanks for responding to my post.

I think you've misread the books you talk about. I think
the recommendation for breathing from the solar plexus is
allow air to enter the lungs efficiently without cramping
the internal organs, not because taking a breath not from
the solar plexus will lead to an injury.



  #19  
Old October 17th 04, 08:25 AM
Peter Webb
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"Eric Riehl" wrote in message
...
I just want to add to the comments I made yesterday in response
to Peter Webb's comments. Some books that talk about breathing give
additional insights on their recommended method of breathing.
For example Mable E. Todd's book, _The Thinking Body_ subtitled
_A study of the Balancing Forces of Dynamic Man_ recommends breathing
by visualizing the horizontally oriented diaphram as a piston moving
down when a person inhales and moving out as a person exhales. She
then traces all the effects of breating improperly by holding the
chest high and shows how that would cause the pelvis to tilt forward
farther than is optimal and even cause the liopsoas and obturator
pyriformis
muscle groups to incorrectly center the femor in the actabulum, so that
effeciency of movement is reduced.

For somebody who wants to do well in athletic competition or dance
smoothly this increase in effeciency is important. For a body builder,
the lines of the body would be improved if the pelvis were tilted
forward less. In the long run, bad body alignment would probably
also lead to an in increased chance of injury, so Peter is also
correct that breathing incorrectly is less safe than breathing
correctly.


So by your analogy, nobody should breathe, because it can be dangerous if
done incorrectly.

I am still somewhat bemused by your inconsistency.


1. You stated you can lunge 450 pounds, which would give you a 900 pound
squat, [which would make you a world class powerlifter]. You state it was no
harder than walking up a hill.

2. When challenged, you changed this to a 450 pound squat. This was either
full range of motion, or to thighs parallel, you stated it was both, despite
that they are different.

3. You think that weight training is dangerous if you go to failure, with
free weights, using barbells, without a spotter.

4. You think that you should go to failure, not use machines, and use
barbells as this is the most effective way to train. As this is dangerous,
the original poster shouldn't do weight training.

5. You actually train doing squats and lunges in a smith machine (widely
regarded as a dangerous exercise), but don't seem to notice any
inconsistency in this position.

6. You defend your position on the need for spotters in two ways. Firstly,
you state that every (any) weightlifting book says its true. Then you later
say anybody who works in a gym will tell you horrible stories if you say you
are going to weightlift without a spotter. Well, 95% of my sets are done
without a spotter, and nobody who works at my gym has ever told me that its
dangerous. They do, however, frequently comment upon my form and other
aspects of what I am doing. Unlike you, I haven't read every weightlifting
book, but I think your statement is kind of one of those "I can lunge 450
pounds" things - perhaps not entirely accurate.

You do see that some of theses statements are inconsistent, don't you?



  #20  
Old October 17th 04, 12:20 PM
John Dunlop
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Peter Webb wrote:

[ ... ]

2. When challenged, you [Eric Riehl] changed this to a 450 pound squat. This
was either full range of motion, or to thighs parallel, you stated it was
both, despite that they are different.


I reckon the problem is that, unfortunately, someone is
suffering from a lack of subscription to MFW; not knowing
your arse from your elbow is symptomatic of this dreadful
deficiency. The remedy is self-administered (read self-
inflicted), though not by any means painless: read MFW.

HAGW! what's left of it.

--
Jock
 




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