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Another fear-mongering article on supplementation....



 
 
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  #1  
Old October 11th 11, 01:51 AM posted to misc.fitness.weights,rec.running
Existential Angst[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 835
Default Another fear-mongering article on supplementation....

http://health.msn.com/womens-health/...1010&GT1=31036

What a load of horse****....

True, water has an LD-50.... so does O2....

It is true that STUPID supplementation is of course dangerous.
There are pillmakers who sell 250 mg tablets of B6, which is positively
toxic.
5-hour energy contains 40 mg of B6, which is also ultra un-smart (assuming
my astigmatic eyes read the label right).
Hmmm.... lemme check.... Yup.... along with 833 mcg of B-12, which is
semi-absurd.

Hard to know where to even begin on this kind of "research", reporting. I
think the Enquirer and Star Mag have better fact-checking/peer-review than
these jerkoff journal articles.

The one thing that DOES make sense is the iron connection, which is
clinically/histologically well-observed.
More and more multi's are offering the option of zero iron, such as Costco's
Mature Multi, not a bad formula. Their Performance Multi has 9 mg of iron,
a bit less than most others.
Iron is thought by many to be MUCH more the culprit in CAD than effing
cholesterol.

It is virtually impossible to get "optimal nutrition" from a """""sensible
diet""""".

Magnesium correlated with effing mortality???? Are you effing kidding
me?????????????
Magnesium is as close to a miracle nutrient as you can get, and it is
unlikely that anyone short of herbivores are getting even the RDA (about 400
mg), which is proly already woefully low -- proly 800 mg is a better
"minimum".

Magnesium will stop kidney stones, arrest acute asthma attacks, lower
blood pressure, make yer dick grow longer..... well, at least I think it
did.... LOL

Magnesium (or lack thereof) also seems to be increasingly implicated in the
osteoporotic process.
--
EA


  #2  
Old October 11th 11, 01:52 AM posted to misc.fitness.weights,rec.running
Existential Angst[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 835
Default Another fear-mongering article on supplementation....

"Existential Angst" wrote in message
...
http://health.msn.com/womens-health/...1010&GT1=31036

What a load of horse****....

True, water has an LD-50.... so does O2....

It is true that STUPID supplementation is of course dangerous.
There are pillmakers who sell 250 mg tablets of B6, which is positively
toxic.
5-hour energy contains 40 mg of B6, which is also ultra un-smart (assuming
my astigmatic eyes read the label right).
Hmmm.... lemme check.... Yup.... along with 833 mcg of B-12, which is
semi-absurd.

Hard to know where to even begin on this kind of "research", reporting. I
think the Enquirer and Star Mag have better fact-checking/peer-review than
these jerkoff journal articles.

The one thing that DOES make sense is the iron connection, which is
clinically/histologically well-observed.
More and more multi's are offering the option of zero iron, such as
Costco's Mature Multi, not a bad formula. Their Performance Multi has 9
mg of iron, a bit less than most others.
Iron is thought by many to be MUCH more the culprit in CAD than effing
cholesterol.

It is virtually impossible to get "optimal nutrition" from a """""sensible
diet""""".

Magnesium correlated with effing mortality???? Are you effing kidding
me?????????????
Magnesium is as close to a miracle nutrient as you can get, and it is
unlikely that anyone short of herbivores are getting even the RDA (about
400 mg), which is proly already woefully low -- proly 800 mg is a better
"minimum".

Magnesium will stop kidney stones, arrest acute asthma attacks, lower
blood pressure, make yer dick grow longer..... well, at least I think it
did.... LOL

Magnesium (or lack thereof) also seems to be increasingly implicated in
the osteoporotic process.


Oh, it would be inneresting to see just who FUNDED this study..... no doubt
an arm of Big Pharma....
--
EA


--
EA



  #3  
Old October 11th 11, 02:27 AM posted to misc.fitness.weights,rec.running
Existential Angst[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 835
Default Another fear-mongering article on supplementation....

"Existential Angst" wrote in message
...
http://health.msn.com/womens-health/...1010&GT1=31036

What a load of horse****....

True, water has an LD-50.... so does O2....

It is true that STUPID supplementation is of course dangerous.
There are pillmakers who sell 250 mg tablets of B6, which is positively
toxic.
5-hour energy contains 40 mg of B6, which is also ultra un-smart (assuming
my astigmatic eyes read the label right).
Hmmm.... lemme check.... Yup.... along with 833 mcg of B-12, which is
semi-absurd.

Hard to know where to even begin on this kind of "research", reporting. I
think the Enquirer and Star Mag have better fact-checking/peer-review than
these jerkoff journal articles.

The one thing that DOES make sense is the iron connection, which is
clinically/histologically well-observed.
More and more multi's are offering the option of zero iron, such as
Costco's Mature Multi, not a bad formula. Their Performance Multi has 9
mg of iron, a bit less than most others.
Iron is thought by many to be MUCH more the culprit in CAD than effing
cholesterol.

It is virtually impossible to get "optimal nutrition" from a """""sensible
diet""""".

Magnesium correlated with effing mortality???? Are you effing kidding
me?????????????
Magnesium is as close to a miracle nutrient as you can get, and it is
unlikely that anyone short of herbivores are getting even the RDA (about
400 mg), which is proly already woefully low -- proly 800 mg is a better
"minimum".

Magnesium will stop kidney stones, arrest acute asthma attacks, lower
blood pressure, make yer dick grow longer..... well, at least I think it
did.... LOL

Magnesium (or lack thereof) also seems to be increasingly implicated in
the osteoporotic process.


Oh, yeah, runners (marathon) proly need more nutrients per lb bw than any
other athlete, which is sort of confirmed by my previous post on
osteoporosis and cycling (steady :LARGE loss of calcium through sweat), as
well as studies on protein. Runners require more protein per lb bw than
virtually any other athalete, as well.

So runners who DON'T supplement are proly operating at a handicap from the
gitgo.

Low magneiusm, btw, also directly affects energy stores, as it stabilizes
ATP stores, because of its 2+ charge.
--
EA


--
EA



  #4  
Old October 11th 11, 05:32 AM posted to misc.fitness.weights,rec.running
Jim Janney[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 477
Default Another fear-mongering article on supplementation....

"Existential Angst" writes:

http://health.msn.com/womens-health/...1010&GT1=31036

What a load of horse****....

True, water has an LD-50.... so does O2....

It is true that STUPID supplementation is of course dangerous.
There are pillmakers who sell 250 mg tablets of B6, which is positively
toxic.
5-hour energy contains 40 mg of B6, which is also ultra un-smart (assuming
my astigmatic eyes read the label right).
Hmmm.... lemme check.... Yup.... along with 833 mcg of B-12, which is
semi-absurd.

Hard to know where to even begin on this kind of "research", reporting. I
think the Enquirer and Star Mag have better fact-checking/peer-review than
these jerkoff journal articles.

The one thing that DOES make sense is the iron connection, which is
clinically/histologically well-observed.
More and more multi's are offering the option of zero iron, such as Costco's
Mature Multi, not a bad formula. Their Performance Multi has 9 mg of iron,
a bit less than most others.
Iron is thought by many to be MUCH more the culprit in CAD than effing
cholesterol.

It is virtually impossible to get "optimal nutrition" from a """""sensible
diet""""".

Magnesium correlated with effing mortality???? Are you effing kidding
me?????????????
Magnesium is as close to a miracle nutrient as you can get, and it is
unlikely that anyone short of herbivores are getting even the RDA (about 400
mg), which is proly already woefully low -- proly 800 mg is a better
"minimum".

Magnesium will stop kidney stones, arrest acute asthma attacks, lower
blood pressure, make yer dick grow longer..... well, at least I think it
did.... LOL

Magnesium (or lack thereof) also seems to be increasingly implicated in the
osteoporotic process.


http://xkcd.com/552/

Maybe the healthy people in the study didn't take as many supplements?
Because they were, you know, already healthy? A careful study would
attempt to control for that and perhaps this one does, but you can't
tell one way or the other from reading the article.

I'm all in favor of collecting information, but you have to be careful
about drawing conclusions from it.

--
Jim Janney
  #5  
Old October 11th 11, 05:45 AM posted to misc.fitness.weights,rec.running
Existential Angst[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 835
Default Another fear-mongering article on supplementation....

On Mon, 10 Oct 2011 20:27:19 -0400, Existential Angst wrote:

"Existential Angst" wrote in message
...
http://health.msn.com/womens-health/...1010&GT1=31036

What a load of horse****....

True, water has an LD-50.... so does O2....

It is true that STUPID supplementation is of course dangerous.
There are pillmakers who sell 250 mg tablets of B6, which is positively
toxic.
5-hour energy contains 40 mg of B6, which is also ultra un-smart (assuming
my astigmatic eyes read the label right).
Hmmm.... lemme check.... Yup.... along with 833 mcg of B-12, which is
semi-absurd.

Hard to know where to even begin on this kind of "research", reporting. I
think the Enquirer and Star Mag have better fact-checking/peer-review than
these jerkoff journal articles.

The one thing that DOES make sense is the iron connection, which is
clinically/histologically well-observed.
More and more multi's are offering the option of zero iron, such as
Costco's Mature Multi, not a bad formula. Their Performance Multi has 9
mg of iron, a bit less than most others.
Iron is thought by many to be MUCH more the culprit in CAD than effing
cholesterol.

It is virtually impossible to get "optimal nutrition" from a """""sensible
diet""""".

Magnesium correlated with effing mortality???? Are you effing kidding
me?????????????
Magnesium is as close to a miracle nutrient as you can get, and it is
unlikely that anyone short of herbivores are getting even the RDA (about
400 mg), which is proly already woefully low -- proly 800 mg is a better
"minimum".

Magnesium will stop kidney stones, arrest acute asthma attacks, lower
blood pressure, make yer dick grow longer..... well, at least I think it
did.... LOL

Magnesium (or lack thereof) also seems to be increasingly implicated in
the osteoporotic process.


Oh, yeah, runners (marathon) proly need more nutrients per lb bw than any
other athlete, which is sort of confirmed by my previous post on
osteoporosis and cycling (steady :LARGE loss of calcium through sweat), as
well as studies on protein. Runners require more protein per lb bw than
virtually any other athalete, as well.

So runners who DON'T supplement are proly operating at a handicap from the
gitgo.

Low magneiusm, btw, also directly affects energy stores, as it stabilizes
ATP stores, because of its 2+ charge.


Anyone, anyone gonna Usenet with me?
--
EA
  #6  
Old October 11th 11, 12:44 PM posted to misc.fitness.weights,rec.running
Doug Freese
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,148
Default Another fear-mongering article on supplementation....



"Existential Angst" wrote in message ...

On Mon, 10 Oct 2011 20:27:19 -0400, Existential Angst wrote:

"Existential Angst" wrote in message
...
http://health.msn.com/womens-health/...1010&GT1=31036

What a load of horse****....

True, water has an LD-50.... so does O2....

It is true that STUPID supplementation is of course dangerous.
There are pillmakers who sell 250 mg tablets of B6, which is positively
toxic.
5-hour energy contains 40 mg of B6, which is also ultra un-smart
(assuming
my astigmatic eyes read the label right).
Hmmm.... lemme check.... Yup.... along with 833 mcg of B-12, which is
semi-absurd.

Hard to know where to even begin on this kind of "research", reporting.
I
think the Enquirer and Star Mag have better fact-checking/peer-review
than
these jerkoff journal articles.





The one thing that DOES make sense is the iron connection, which is
clinically/histologically well-observed.
More and more multi's are offering the option of zero iron, such as
Costco's Mature Multi, not a bad formula. Their Performance Multi has 9
mg of iron, a bit less than most others.
Iron is thought by many to be MUCH more the culprit in CAD than effing
cholesterol.

It is virtually impossible to get "optimal nutrition" from a
"""""sensible
diet""""".

Magnesium correlated with effing mortality???? Are you effing kidding
me?????????????
Magnesium is as close to a miracle nutrient as you can get, and it is
unlikely that anyone short of herbivores are getting even the RDA (about
400 mg), which is proly already woefully low -- proly 800 mg is a better
"minimum".

Magnesium will stop kidney stones, arrest acute asthma attacks, lower
blood pressure, make yer dick grow longer..... well, at least I think it
did.... LOL

Magnesium (or lack thereof) also seems to be increasingly implicated in
the osteoporotic process.


Oh, yeah, runners (marathon) proly need more nutrients per lb bw than any
other athlete, which is sort of confirmed by my previous post on
osteoporosis and cycling (steady :LARGE loss of calcium through sweat), as
well as studies on protein. Runners require more protein per lb bw than
virtually any other athalete, as well.

So runners who DON'T supplement are proly operating at a handicap from the
gitgo.


I'll just say I'm leery of the large studies be it the Iowa female or the
Bedsty nympho. There is so much stuff going on in those studies that to
determine if Massingill Rose hips or vinegar flavor makes things smell
better is mathematically bizarre much less believable. Roll stuff across
some thousands of people and drawing some conclusion about a single change
or two, well, the check is in the mail. There are too few controls.

FWIW I do use some daily supplements because I don't always eat properly or
balanced and I run 5 days a week. I won't itemize my vitamins but to say I
have the blessing of my vet. That said, I do get ****ed at such products
like Hammer that packs their exercise stuff with more **** then a septic
tank. They think if you add more stuff with letters like b and c etc. and
doing one an hour for 20 hours is wonderful. It's too much stuff.

-Doug





  #7  
Old October 11th 11, 03:36 PM posted to misc.fitness.weights,rec.running
Existential Angst[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 835
Default Another fear-mongering article on supplementation....

"Doug Freese" wrote in message
...


"Existential Angst" wrote in message ...

On Mon, 10 Oct 2011 20:27:19 -0400, Existential Angst wrote:

"Existential Angst" wrote in message
...
http://health.msn.com/womens-health/...1010&GT1=31036

What a load of horse****....

True, water has an LD-50.... so does O2....

It is true that STUPID supplementation is of course dangerous.
There are pillmakers who sell 250 mg tablets of B6, which is positively
toxic.
5-hour energy contains 40 mg of B6, which is also ultra un-smart
(assuming
my astigmatic eyes read the label right).
Hmmm.... lemme check.... Yup.... along with 833 mcg of B-12, which
is
semi-absurd.

Hard to know where to even begin on this kind of "research", reporting.
I
think the Enquirer and Star Mag have better fact-checking/peer-review
than
these jerkoff journal articles.





The one thing that DOES make sense is the iron connection, which is
clinically/histologically well-observed.
More and more multi's are offering the option of zero iron, such as
Costco's Mature Multi, not a bad formula. Their Performance Multi has 9
mg of iron, a bit less than most others.
Iron is thought by many to be MUCH more the culprit in CAD than effing
cholesterol.

It is virtually impossible to get "optimal nutrition" from a
"""""sensible
diet""""".

Magnesium correlated with effing mortality???? Are you effing kidding
me?????????????
Magnesium is as close to a miracle nutrient as you can get, and it is
unlikely that anyone short of herbivores are getting even the RDA (about
400 mg), which is proly already woefully low -- proly 800 mg is a better
"minimum".

Magnesium will stop kidney stones, arrest acute asthma attacks, lower
blood pressure, make yer dick grow longer..... well, at least I think
it
did.... LOL

Magnesium (or lack thereof) also seems to be increasingly implicated in
the osteoporotic process.


Oh, yeah, runners (marathon) proly need more nutrients per lb bw than any
other athlete, which is sort of confirmed by my previous post on
osteoporosis and cycling (steady :LARGE loss of calcium through sweat),
as
well as studies on protein. Runners require more protein per lb bw than
virtually any other athalete, as well.

So runners who DON'T supplement are proly operating at a handicap from
the
gitgo.


I'll just say I'm leery of the large studies be it the Iowa female or the
Bedsty nympho. There is so much stuff going on in those studies that to
determine if Massingill Rose hips or vinegar flavor makes things smell
better is mathematically bizarre much less believable. Roll stuff across
some thousands of people and drawing some conclusion about a single change
or two, well, the check is in the mail. There are too few controls.


Well, I myself AM impressed by large studies.... IF they are conducted
responsibly, analyzed legitimately.

But when a result comes out that is (apparently) PATENTLY absurd, two things
are possible.
1. The study IS in fact patently absurd.
2. Heh, they really DISCOVERED sumpn sumpn.....

The problem with so many of these ""studies"" is that they are like magic
acts, where the spectator has no clue as to what is really going on, and
gullibly chooses to believe his eyes.
Gee, Blaine really DID make dat Sherman Tank disappear!!
Well, of course he didn't, he just mind****ed you. Where did it go?????
Well, there are two answers: It was either never there, or it didn't go
anywhere at all.

Similarly, these studies that just lay some improbable result on us with
ZERO conceptual foundation or explanation, with the gullible reader going,
GEEE, WOW, Holy ****!!!! When in reality, most of this **** is just Cold
Fusion, all over again -- Prematurely Press Released ""studies"".

Are there dangers to supplementation? Of course. Are there surprises, even
reversals??
Yes indeedy, with zinc, iron, and Vit D being among them:

Zinc, iron seem to have a much narrower "window of toxicity" than previously
believed, and Vit D, also previously believed to have a narrow window of
toxicity, now turns out to have such a woefully underestimated RDA (and I DO
mean underESTIMATED, cuz the NIH didn't do dey homework), that you can proly
safely *qunituple* the current RDA. So much for narrow window of toxicity,
eh?

Peer Review means nothing, when all the peers are diddling each other under
the table.



FWIW I do use some daily supplements because I don't always eat properly
or balanced and I run 5 days a week. I won't itemize my vitamins but to
say I have the blessing of my vet. That said, I do get ****ed at such
products like Hammer that packs their exercise stuff with more **** then
a septic tank. They think if you add more stuff with letters like b and
c etc. and doing one an hour for 20 hours is wonderful. It's too much
stuff.


Which is actually not a bad idea! Mebbe not practical, but keep in mind
"divided doses" is THE preferred way to take vites. If you read that
cycling/osteoporosis ditty, the, uh, study g cited the continuous drinking
of calcium water as part of a prophylactic regimen for osteo.
This applies moreso to calcium than to most other nutrients, but the
principle is still valid for all nutrients.

The Q is, do-ability, practicality.

Oh, btw, my stalker is still stalking me, and altho you quoted my legit
posts correctly, you actually posted/replied to his silliness. No biggie,
just realize this is what happens when someone is breastfed into their late
twenties....
--
EA




-Doug







  #8  
Old October 11th 11, 04:15 PM posted to misc.fitness.weights,rec.running
Existential Angst[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 835
Default Another fear-mongering article on supplementation....

On Tue, 11 Oct 2011 06:44:55 -0400, Doug Freese wrote:

I'll just say I'm leery of the large studies be it the Iowa female or the
Bedsty nympho. There is so much stuff going on in those studies that to
determine if Massingill Rose hips or vinegar flavor makes things smell
better is mathematically bizarre much less believable. Roll stuff across
some thousands of people and drawing some conclusion about a single change
or two, well, the check is in the mail. There are too few controls.

FWIW I do use some daily supplements because I don't always eat properly or
balanced and I run 5 days a week. I won't itemize my vitamins but to say I
have the blessing of my vet. That said, I do get ****ed at such products
like Hammer that packs their exercise stuff with more **** then a septic
tank. They think if you add more stuff with letters like b and c etc. and
doing one an hour for 20 hours is wonderful. It's too much stuff.

-Doug


tanks i'm so fukken happy that someone payz tention to ME...
--
EA
  #9  
Old October 11th 11, 09:48 PM posted to misc.fitness.weights,rec.running
Existential Angst[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 835
Default Another fear-mongering article on supplementation....

"MU" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 11 Oct 2011 06:44:55 -0400, Doug Freese wrote:

I'll just say I'm leery of the large studies be it the Iowa female or
the
Bedsty nympho. There is so much stuff going on in those studies that to
determine if Massingill Rose hips or vinegar flavor makes things smell
better is mathematically bizarre much less believable. Roll stuff across
some thousands of people and drawing some conclusion about a single
change
or two, well, the check is in the mail. There are too few controls.


And no one on these newsgroups who have one iota of qualification to
assess them.


Well, actually, dats not quite true. Those that do have the quals just
don't wear them on their sleeves, such as an asshole like, well,
YOU/Courtney Brown would.... Or Andrew Chung....

But the little known fact is, most researchers *in that particular field*
would be hard-pressed to assess the research of others, and that assumes
*total honesty and transparency* of the study at hand. You basically have
to take the researchers' word for virtually *everything*, including the
data.

In many cases, the best you can do is catch them in "fundamental-type"
errors (such as mis-representation of the current knowledge base, incorrect
structures/mathematical formalisms, etc), internal inconsistencies, etc.

But if they haven't made any of those type errors, the study can be absolute
bull**** and you would never know.
Thus, with the least amount of academic disingenuousness (and that's being
polite), studies are VERY difficult to assess.

This is true even in pure mathematics, where I've read accounts of the
near-impossibility of valid peer review even in THAT "unfettered" field.
What an eye-opener DAT was....

In gradurate school, a required course is "literature review", where you
study, for a whole goddamm semester, just HOW to ferret out ALL the details
in a research article. Individuals are assigned an article, or even groups
of 2 or 3 are assigned an article, generally a "classic" or seminal/highly
cited paper, and do a full presentation on it.
You are then subjected to basically a class inquisition, incl the class
puhfessuh, of how well YOU understood the article, bearing in mind that the
whole class is required to read and dissect the article you are presenting.

You cannot IMAGINE the amount of work this takes. What a fukn
nightmare.....

So indeed, one could arger that almost NO ONE can fully assess these
articles, esp. when they are *fundamentally* bull****.

Think Cold Fusion, which even after the initial hub-bub, labs around the
country were """replicating""" their bull**** results.... WTF????

I may have posted this already, but it's always a gas, and very instructive,
to re-link it. Consider a well-known case in pure physics:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bogdanov_Affair for a general overview

http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/bogdanoff/ for a more critical analysis,
where not only do you learn that the Bogdanov Bros can't grok the classical
physics of the Foucalt pendulum/coriolis force, apparently a lot of their
PhD colleague supporters don't grok these elementary classical physics
concepts either!!
YET, they pontificate on String Theory, Unification Theory, and
BigBangBull****, ad nauseum.

Finally, how Assaholicness knows no bounds:
http://www.celebrityplasticsurgery.t...anoff-brothers

Again, this is *pure physics*, not some messy epidemiological/statistical
crappola.

So yeah, MU, it IS hard to assess these articles, which is why we are in our
current point'n'click oblivion, with many unlikely to be able to collect
their pensions.

Le Pubic is in deep ****.
--
EA




  #10  
Old October 11th 11, 10:27 PM posted to misc.fitness.weights,rec.running
Existential Angst[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 835
Default Another fear-mongering article on supplementation....

On Tue, 11 Oct 2011 15:48:16 -0400, Existential Angst wrote:

"MU" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 11 Oct 2011 06:44:55 -0400, Doug Freese wrote:

I'll just say I'm leery of the large studies be it the Iowa female or
the
Bedsty nympho. There is so much stuff going on in those studies that to
determine if Massingill Rose hips or vinegar flavor makes things smell
better is mathematically bizarre much less believable. Roll stuff across
some thousands of people and drawing some conclusion about a single
change
or two, well, the check is in the mail. There are too few controls.


And no one on these newsgroups who have one iota of qualification to
assess them.


Well, actually, dats not quite true.I'm a qualerfied pedo-file so up
yours Moo
--
EA
 




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