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Down Sleeping Bags and the Outdoor Show



 
 
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  #1  
Old April 1st 04, 08:00 PM
Andy Howell
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Default Down Sleeping Bags and the Outdoor Show

There is something rather annoying about having the Outdoor Show in Brum for
the weekend, especially when on Wednesday I head out to Snowdonia for a
week. The temptation to buy all kinds of things this weekend is - I suspect
- going to be far too great.

In general I want to reduce the weight in my pack and there are two things
that are in my sights for replacement, my sleeping bag and my Thermorest.
The Thermorest is quite straightforward but I wonder if any of you can give
me some advice on the bag.

I currently use a synthetic bag which is quite heavy. But the down bags
that I have been looking at from Mountain Equipment are really not that much
lighter although to be fair my old Coleman Bag may well be much heavier than
it says on the label! But there seems to be a Rab 3 season bag which weighs
in at about half a kilogram: does anyone have any experience of this bag or
of the other alternatives?




--
Andy Howell
Birmingham, UK



  #2  
Old April 2nd 04, 01:20 AM
druidh
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Default Down Sleeping Bags and the Outdoor Show


"Andy Howell" wrote in message
...
There is something rather annoying about having the Outdoor Show in Brum

for
the weekend, especially when on Wednesday I head out to Snowdonia for a
week. The temptation to buy all kinds of things this weekend is - I

suspect
- going to be far too great.

In general I want to reduce the weight in my pack and there are two things
that are in my sights for replacement, my sleeping bag and my Thermorest.
The Thermorest is quite straightforward but I wonder if any of you can

give
me some advice on the bag.

I currently use a synthetic bag which is quite heavy. But the down bags
that I have been looking at from Mountain Equipment are really not that

much
lighter although to be fair my old Coleman Bag may well be much heavier

than
it says on the label! But there seems to be a Rab 3 season bag which

weighs
in at about half a kilogram: does anyone have any experience of this bag

or
of the other alternatives?



For info - I've just bought a Mountain Hardware Phantom 32. Rated to 0C and
weighing in at 600g. I did quite a bit of research before reaching this
choice. I've an Excel spreadhseet with lots of weights / ratings and prices
should you care for a copy. I was looking at bags rated down to
around -5C - which qualifies for only two seasons up here in the frozen
North! Nowt wrong with Rab bags tho - I've a Summit 600 which I use for
winter camping.

One small point to watch for - some of the very light bags have no zips. In
my opinion, that rules them out of Summer use, which means that they're also
two season - Spring and Autumn.

Other makes to look out for??

Marmot Hydrogen (595g)
Rab Summit 300 Half-zip (820g)
PHD Minim 400 (700g)
Kimmlite Q700 (700g)
Mountain Equipment Dewline (730g)
Mountain Equipment Skyline (only 560g but also only rated down to +5C)

How accurate are the temperature ratings? Well, Rab seem to be fairly
conservative - the others I don't know much about.


druidh


  #3  
Old April 2nd 04, 08:54 AM
John and Pauline at Thornbury
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Default Down Sleeping Bags and the Outdoor Show

If you think down bags are as heavy as the other stuff-think again! All down
bags weight ratio to warmth are lighter and better. Who on earth really
wants to use synthetic when you can have the real thing?
Just choose a Mountain Equipment/Rab/Marmot in fact any down and it will be
better/lighter and warmer.
Regards,
John.
http://www.pbase.com/john28july


--
No direct reply option available.
"Andy Howell" wrote in message
...
There is something rather annoying about having the Outdoor Show in Brum

for
the weekend, especially when on Wednesday I head out to Snowdonia for a
week. The temptation to buy all kinds of things this weekend is - I

suspect
- going to be far too great.

In general I want to reduce the weight in my pack and there are two things
that are in my sights for replacement, my sleeping bag and my Thermorest.
The Thermorest is quite straightforward but I wonder if any of you can

give
me some advice on the bag.

I currently use a synthetic bag which is quite heavy. But the down bags
that I have been looking at from Mountain Equipment are really not that

much
lighter although to be fair my old Coleman Bag may well be much heavier

than
it says on the label! But there seems to be a Rab 3 season bag which

weighs
in at about half a kilogram: does anyone have any experience of this bag

or
of the other alternatives?




--
Andy Howell
Birmingham, UK





  #4  
Old April 2nd 04, 10:39 AM
Peter Clinch
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Posts: n/a
Default Down Sleeping Bags and the Outdoor Show

Andy Howell wrote:

I currently use a synthetic bag which is quite heavy. But the down bags
that I have been looking at from Mountain Equipment are really not that much
lighter although to be fair my old Coleman Bag may well be much heavier than
it says on the label! But there seems to be a Rab 3 season bag which weighs
in at about half a kilogram: does anyone have any experience of this bag or
of the other alternatives?


Note that any reputable down bag will generally be much warmer than a
rather second hand synthetic with a similar season rating. One of the
worst things about synthetics is they degrade fairly badly after a few
years, while down maintains its performance very well, at least if kept
clean. From what I gather down bags tend to given slightly less
optimistic ratings to start with as well...

My lady friend has the Rab Quantum 600 and it's a lovely piece of kit.
Looking at it I'd have no hesitation in looking into the Q400 for a
general bag, though it's 750g rather than 500g. There's also a Q200,
but like the rather minimalist ME Dewline that doesn't have a zip so
isn't quite as flexible a bit of kit, but it's very light and packs down
tiny.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

  #5  
Old April 2nd 04, 10:41 AM
Peter Clinch
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Posts: n/a
Default Down Sleeping Bags and the Outdoor Show

John and Pauline at Thornbury wrote:
Who on earth really
wants to use synthetic when you can have the real thing?


People who are allergic to down is a fairly obvious category...

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

  #6  
Old April 2nd 04, 04:44 PM
Ken
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Down Sleeping Bags and the Outdoor Show


"Andy Howell" wrote in message
...
There is something rather annoying about having the Outdoor Show in Brum

for
the weekend, especially when on Wednesday I head out to Snowdonia for a
week. The temptation to buy all kinds of things this weekend is - I

suspect
- going to be far too great.

In general I want to reduce the weight in my pack and there are two things
that are in my sights for replacement, my sleeping bag and my Thermorest.
The Thermorest is quite straightforward but I wonder if any of you can

give
me some advice on the bag.

I currently use a synthetic bag which is quite heavy. But the down bags
that I have been looking at from Mountain Equipment are really not that

much
lighter although to be fair my old Coleman Bag may well be much heavier

than
it says on the label! But there seems to be a Rab 3 season bag which

weighs
in at about half a kilogram: does anyone have any experience of this bag

or
of the other alternatives?


I recently bought my first down bag - a very basic Field & Trek own brand
('Rolling Clouds') - to work with my lightwieght hammock/hoochie combo.
Managed to get in for sub 100, which was very reasonable considering it
claims -20 rating, and having used it for the first time in the Brecons
recently, I've been very pleased. Though it's right at the bottom of the
range, it's a similar size and weight to my previous synthetic 0 rated bags,
and I'm really happy that it suits me in the comfort/size/weight/cost
trade-off (not least because I didn't have 200+ to spend). Whether it works
in the durability and 'keeping dry' stakes remains to be seen.

PS. I wouldn't have thought a Thermorest is a great way to save weight.
Comfortable, yes, but.....


  #7  
Old April 2nd 04, 04:54 PM
Peter Clinch
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Posts: n/a
Default Down Sleeping Bags and the Outdoor Show

Ken wrote:

trade-off (not least because I didn't have =A3200+ to spend). Whether i=

t works
in the durability and 'keeping dry' stakes remains to be seen.


The worries expressed about keeping down bags dry are, AFAICT, mostly=20
FUD. You don't want to get *any* sleeping bag wet, and even if you do=20
get a down bag wet it needs a pretty good soaking to be badly affected.=20
You'd think that they'd shrivel up as soon as a single drop touched=20
them, the way some people worry about it. Durability of a down bag, as=20
long as it is kept clean (I use a liner and send mine to Franklins every =

3 or so years) is excellent. No reason it shouldn't last decades and be =

more or less as effective as it is now, and if it *does* start to lose a =

bit they're easy enough to have new down added. Synthetics degrade in a =

few years and that's that.

PS. I wouldn't have thought a Thermorest is a great way to save weight.=


Comfortable, yes, but.....


There's Thermarests and Thermarests. The ProLite range, especially the=20
3 season 3/4 length, is a pretty light piece of kit, the full length=20
Luxury Camp model, not so... I have an old standard and a more recent=20
Ultralite. I use the standard when weight and bulk isn't an issue but=20
backpacking I take the Ultralite: there's a significant difference in=20
portability.

Pete.
--=20
Peter Clinch University of Dundee
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

  #8  
Old April 2nd 04, 05:59 PM
Ken
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Down Sleeping Bags and the Outdoor Show


"Peter Clinch" wrote in message
...
Ken wrote:

trade-off (not least because I didn't have 200+ to spend). Whether it

works
in the durability and 'keeping dry' stakes remains to be seen.


The worries expressed about keeping down bags dry are, AFAICT, mostly
FUD. You don't want to get *any* sleeping bag wet, and even if you do
get a down bag wet it needs a pretty good soaking to be badly affected.
You'd think that they'd shrivel up as soon as a single drop touched
them, the way some people worry about it. Durability of a down bag, as
long as it is kept clean (I use a liner and send mine to Franklins every
3 or so years) is excellent. No reason it shouldn't last decades and be
more or less as effective as it is now, and if it *does* start to lose a
bit they're easy enough to have new down added. Synthetics degrade in a
few years and that's that.


Thanks!
If that's the case, everything else considered it seems to be round about a
1 extra for every 2g weight saved for down bags with similar thermo
performance.


  #9  
Old April 2nd 04, 07:57 PM
Paul Saunders
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Posts: n/a
Default Down Sleeping Bags and the Outdoor Show

Peter Clinch wrote:

There's Thermarests and Thermarests. The ProLite range, especially
the 3 season 3/4 length, is a pretty light piece of kit, the full
length Luxury Camp model, not so...


Yet the full length luxury model is lighter than the standard and
surprisingly so considering how thick and comfortable it is. I have no
hesitation taking it base camping in the wilds, the warmth and comfort
is well worth it. An ultralite would be better for lightweight
backpacking though.

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk
http://www.wildwales.fsnet.co.uk
http://www.photosig.com/go/users/userphotos?id=118749


  #10  
Old April 2nd 04, 08:50 PM
Andy Howell
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Posts: n/a
Default Down Sleeping Bags and the Outdoor Show

On 2/4/04 3:44 pm, in article , "Ken"
wrote:

PS. I wouldn't have thought a Thermorest is a great way to save weight.
Comfortable, yes, but.....


Well yes but they are so comfortable. I currently use an old bog standard
thermo - these new ones are very much lighter.


--
Andy Howell
Birmingham, UK



 




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