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Scottish mountains - how on earth can anyone pronounce them?



 
 
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  #21  
Old December 15th 04, 11:03 AM
Gordon Harris
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Peewiglet writes
I've been poring over the map of Scotland, but no sooner to I begin to
develop an idea of where I might like to walk than I forget where it
was, because I can't begin to pronounce about 95% of the place names.

Is it all a malignant plot to keep nesh Southerners out?

How on earth does anyone ever tell anyone else where they've been? Or
do those in the know just make a few gutteral grunting noises and make
it up as they go along?

Just wait 'til you start on Wales!
--
Gordon Harris
  #22  
Old December 15th 04, 11:07 AM
spongebob
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"BeauGeste" wrote

3. Finally, more to the point, I just try and pronounce the Scottish
hills in English. So when I've taken a pic on my digital I press the
record button and say 'This is me at the top of 'Sgoor Fuooar Fuill'
(Sgurr Fhuar-thuill). Totally mispronounced, of course, but what the
hell, eh. As long as it means something to you.


Kewl! Shurely you mean Sgur Fooar-thuil? ;-)

Graham


  #23  
Old December 15th 04, 12:21 PM
bob watkinson
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"spongebob" wrote in message
...

"BeauGeste" wrote

3. Finally, more to the point, I just try and pronounce the Scottish
hills in English. So when I've taken a pic on my digital I press the
record button and say 'This is me at the top of 'Sgoor Fuooar Fuill'
(Sgurr Fhuar-thuill). Totally mispronounced, of course, but what the
hell, eh. As long as it means something to you.


Kewl! Shurely you mean Sgur Fooar-thuil? ;-)

Graham

Lets all try to annoy BeauGeste after 3. 1 - 2 - 3 KEWL!!!


  #24  
Old December 15th 04, 01:02 PM
Syke
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"Syke" wrote in message
...

"spongebob" wrote in message
...

"Peewiglet" wrote

I've been poring over the map of Scotland, but no sooner to I begin

to
develop an idea of where I might like to walk than I forget where it
was, because I can't begin to pronounce about 95% of the place

names.

Is it all a malignant plot to keep nesh Southerners out?

How on earth does anyone ever tell anyone else where they've been?

Or
do those in the know just make a few gutteral grunting noises and

make
it up as they go along?



Oh, and if you're REALLY,REALLY interested, try and get hold of "Scottish
Hill and Mountain Names" by Peter Drummond, published by Scottish
Mountaineering Trust, ISBN 0-907521-30-4. It'll probably tell you more than
you want to know but is interesting nevertheless.


Regards


Pat Macguire


  #25  
Old December 15th 04, 02:07 PM
Michael Farthing
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In message , Peewiglet
writes
I've been poring over the map of Scotland, but no sooner to I begin to
develop an idea of where I might like to walk than I forget where it
was, because I can't begin to pronounce about 95% of the place names.

Is it all a malignant plot to keep nesh Southerners out?

How on earth does anyone ever tell anyone else where they've been? Or
do those in the know just make a few gutteral grunting noises and make
it up as they go along?


Enquiring minds want to know...


The basic rule about Gaelic is that if in doubt about how a particular
letter or letter combination is pronounced, miss it out. You will be
correct more often than you are incorrect.

But for an expert opinion:

"The difficulties to be surmounted in studying and pronouncing Gaelic
are not at all so formidable or so numerous as they may at first sight
appear"

[MacLaren's Gaelic Self-Taught] Introduction

"The combination of lingual consonants with labials and also g and ch is
noted in that they interpolate an added vowel sound between them and one
generally correspondent to the preceding vowel. Thus, the combinations
ib, ich, ig, im, ip and so on, interpolate this distinct drawl vowel
between them. faibh [falu"v); alba (alabu"); tilg (tchy lyk) etc.
Similarly between the same groups of consonants when they come next each
other in compound words: ban-mhaighstir (banava"shtchyr)."

ibid, Para 37

Can't think what you're making a fuss about.


--
Michael Farthing
Aardvark Ltd
  #26  
Old December 15th 04, 02:31 PM
Tony Buckley
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Michael Farthing wrote

Can't think what you're making a fuss about.


And quite right too. Just to recap then Michael, you pronounce Liathach
how...?

Tony
Who wonders what his name would look like were it given the gaelic treatment


  #27  
Old December 15th 04, 03:04 PM
Peewiglet
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On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 13:07:25 +0000, Michael Farthing
wrote:

[...]
[MacLaren's Gaelic Self-Taught] Introduction

"The combination of lingual consonants with labials and also g and ch is
noted in that they interpolate an added vowel sound between them and one
generally correspondent to the preceding vowel. Thus, the combinations
ib, ich, ig, im, ip and so on, interpolate this distinct drawl vowel
between them. faibh [falu"v); alba (alabu"); tilg (tchy lyk) etc.
Similarly between the same groups of consonants when they come next each
other in compound words: ban-mhaighstir (banava"shtchyr)."

ibid, Para 37

Can't think what you're making a fuss about.


Yes, it's all much clearer now, thanks.

;-)




Best wishes,
--
,,
(**)PeeWiglet~~
/ \ / \
  #28  
Old December 15th 04, 03:19 PM
Michael Farthing
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In message , Tony Buckley
writes
Michael Farthing wrote

Can't think what you're making a fuss about.


And quite right too. Just to recap then Michael, you pronounce Liathach
how...?


:-)

Llee ach

The double l as double ll in million, not as in Welsh.
'ch', of course, as in loch not church.

Well, that's what MacLaren says (I think), but he is a bit guarded:
Para 36: "th: in the middle and end of a word it is _generally_ silent"
[ie. It follows Farthing Para 1: "if in doubt, miss it out" - but only
_generally_ ].

My own view is that it is more sensible to climb it than to pronounce
it.
And it's super to run down.


PS Apologies for extra confusion added by me in post referred to: I made
all the consonant combinations begin with i instead of l

--
Michael Farthing
Aardvark Ltd
  #29  
Old December 15th 04, 03:35 PM
Phil Cook
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On 14 Dec 2004 16:41:20 -0800, BeauGeste wrote:

1. Ignore Ralph Storer! Before I became a munro-bagger I followed his
routes and climbed the middle 2 peaks of the South Shiel Ridge. Middle
two? What use was that!! Any decent guide would have told you to get
off your bum and do the whole ridge, 7 munros and all. Which I did
several years later, feeling aggrieved that I was having to repeat a
couple because of Ralph Storer.


Fine. But Storer never said his book was intended for Munro Baggers
did he? No, just the best 100 routes on Scottish Mountains. He's a bit
over-keen on steep (do I someone say precipitous?) grass slopes for
descent but that book is one of the best of it's kind.

2. I hate the use of the word 'kewl'! Please bring back flogging for
all who should know better...

3. Finally, more to the point, I just try and pronounce the Scottish
hills in English. So when I've taken a pic on my digital I press the
record button and say 'This is me at the top of 'Sgoor Fuooar Fuill'
(Sgurr Fhuar-thuill). Totally mispronounced, of course, but what the
hell, eh. As long as it means something to you.


Why not just call the hills by the translation of their name into
English? Sgurr Fuar-Thuill becomes peak of the cold hollow, simple.

It is said that more than 50% of baggers don't even know which hill
they are on.
--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"

  #30  
Old December 15th 04, 03:40 PM
Tony Buckley
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Michael Farthing wrote

And quite right too. Just to recap then Michael, you pronounce Liathach
how...?

:-)


Good, that's how it was meant!

Llee ach
[ie. It follows Farthing Para 1: "if in doubt, miss it out" - but only
_generally_ ].


I guessed that it would be that way. I'm all for making an effort with
Scottish Hill names, but that one seems to bamboozle the majority - and god
knows, I'm no expert! I settled on that pronunciation as (a) I've heard
some people who should know how to pronounce it say it that way, and (b)
it's easy to say. A defensible law of least resistance. I have heard
Leo-goch and Lee-attack defended as the One True Way as well, though I've
never had the knowledge, energy or all-round arsedness to argue - or to
change my pronunciation.

My own view is that it is more sensible to climb it than to pronounce
it.


Strangely I haven't yet, but at least I'm prepared for when someone asks
'what did you do today?'. One for the (hopefully near) future.

T.


 




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