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Scottish mountains - how on earth can anyone pronounce them?



 
 
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  #61  
Old December 18th 04, 11:28 AM
RJ Webb
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Going back to the French analogy, even cities which don't have English
equivalents (and I think only Paris and Dunkirk do) will be pronounced
differently in a French accent. We say Mont-Pell-Ear but they say
Mon-Pur-Li'ay (and we both write Montpellier) and we still understand
each other!



What gets my goat is the ignornat inventions of new English names for
place names in countries that use a different alphabet as if it is
our own.

Fortunately we got the Russian ones right, Moscow instead of Mockba,
but why do folk **** on Welsh names in that manner.

Anglicisations are not bad, but they should be like they used to be,
based on the sound of the original, not the spelling.(see Irish hill
names, or Cairngorm. ( I use Cairngorm for the Glen More one and Carn
Gorm for the other 4, but thats just my habit)

eg.. Carneths iso Carneds

Also places like Wales and parts of England, Transylvania etc that
have different languages often use totally different names for places
in their respective languages. Llanandras - Presteigne , Llwydlo -
Ludlow , Brasso - Brasov - Kronstadt etc. The spelling of Paris in
English is probably a coincidence, its a different word.

A lot of peaks in the Mamores have English names...These are used by
locals in Kinlochleven. They are often translations of the Gaelic ,
they are genuine English names. Not clumsy puns and no need to try and
work out what version of Na Gruagaichean to use...

Richard Webb



  #63  
Old December 18th 04, 05:51 PM
RJ Webb
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Actually, I'd say Mon-Pur-Li'ay too - but them I'm from Edinburgh and grew
up near Montpellier Park and we always pronounced it the French way. Must be
all that Franco-Scottish crossover stuff. Like Petty France (actually Petit
France) where the new Infirmary is.


Just asked a local('er indoors), and the pronounciation was pretty
standard English. As it was for the town with BF square....

BTW I am hopefully moving to that part of town soon, having been
kicked out of the current flat.

Richard Webb


  #64  
Old December 18th 04, 11:18 PM
Bernard Hill
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In article . com, Chris
Gilbert writes

Sandy Birrell wrote:


Somewhere in the dark recesses of my mind I remember an interview

with
Sorley Maclean, the Gaelic poet, and in it he was asked how various

place
names should be pronounced, Liathach was one of them. If I remember

right he
said it depended on where the gaelic speaker came from but the

general
pronounciation and that used by the locals was Lia Gach, the 'g'

being a
sort of stop of the tounge on the back of the pallet like a soft 'c'

as in
loch.


Sorley was the standard reference for pronunciation on The Munro Show,
which is where you probably saw it. He did indeed say it should be
pronounced as you say but he also said that it was something of an
anomoly.

Chris


Speaking of the Munro show, were there ever more than 2 videos of that?
I'd love to have seen more.


--
Bernard Hill
Selkirk, Scotland

  #65  
Old December 19th 04, 06:04 PM
Simon Caldwell
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On Tue, 14 Dec 2004 22:33:16 +0000, Peewiglet
wrote:


How on earth does anyone ever tell anyone else where they've been? Or
do those in the know just make a few gutteral grunting noises and make
it up as they go along?



http://www.smc.org.uk/books/books_hill_names.htm

Not just pronunciations but background information too.

--
York Alpine Club - http://www.yorkalpineclub.org.uk
Recent Photos - http://climbing.me.uk
Old Photos - http://www.simon-caldwell.co.uk
My Brother's Photos - http://www.caldwellcreations.co.uk
  #66  
Old December 19th 04, 06:05 PM
druidh
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"Bernard Hill" wrote in message
...
In article . com, Chris
Gilbert writes

Sandy Birrell wrote:


Somewhere in the dark recesses of my mind I remember an interview

with
Sorley Maclean, the Gaelic poet, and in it he was asked how various

place
names should be pronounced, Liathach was one of them. If I remember

right he
said it depended on where the gaelic speaker came from but the

general
pronounciation and that used by the locals was Lia Gach, the 'g'

being a
sort of stop of the tounge on the back of the pallet like a soft 'c'

as in
loch.


Sorley was the standard reference for pronunciation on The Munro Show,
which is where you probably saw it. He did indeed say it should be
pronounced as you say but he also said that it was something of an
anomoly.

Chris


Speaking of the Munro show, were there ever more than 2 videos of that?
I'd love to have seen more.


The videos were extracts of the two series. Although the actual hillwalking
bits are fine, the other articles (e.g. access law, mountain bikes) haven't
aged very well. As for the fashions . . . .


The very worst thing is that they tried to follow it up with a quiz - The
Golden Cagoule - which really was cringeworthy.



druidh


  #67  
Old December 19th 04, 06:07 PM
Simon Caldwell
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On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 09:57:02 GMT, "spongebob" wrote:


Yes, I did wonder how much Gaelic varies across Western Scotland
(Liathach being the one everyone debates about -th =g or th =
silent?). The language is supposed to be logical, yet there seems to
be room for dispute?



The bloke in the kilt who used to live in the derelict caravan by the
campsite in Torridon (and who now seems to live in one of the
(council?) houses there) was quite adamant that the correct
pronunciation is as it's spelled, ie Lee-ath-ach.
--
York Alpine Club - http://www.yorkalpineclub.org.uk
Recent Photos - http://climbing.me.uk
Old Photos - http://www.simon-caldwell.co.uk
My Brother's Photos - http://www.caldwellcreations.co.uk
  #68  
Old December 19th 04, 06:11 PM
Simon Caldwell
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On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 13:31:31 -0000, "Tony Buckley"
wrote:


And quite right too. Just to recap then Michael, you pronounce Liathach
how...?


The bloke in the kilt who used to live in the derelict caravan by the
campsite in Torridon (and who now seems to live in one of the
(council?) houses there) was quite adamant that the correct
pronunciation is as it's spelled, ie Lee-ath-ach.

And he should know.

--
York Alpine Club - http://www.yorkalpineclub.org.uk
Recent Photos - http://climbing.me.uk
Old Photos - http://www.simon-caldwell.co.uk
My Brother's Photos - http://www.caldwellcreations.co.uk
  #69  
Old December 19th 04, 06:58 PM
Adrian Tupper
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(RJ Webb) wrote in news:41c4067a.6073671
@usenet.plus.net:

What gets my goat is the ignornat inventions of new English names for
place names in countries that use a different alphabet as if it is
our own.


Ancient ignorance. Like Jehova for God, which comes from the latin
writing of the hebrew Yahweh (=Jhvh in latin). Place names follow
the same pattern.

Fortunately we got the Russian ones right, Moscow instead of Mockba,
but why do folk **** on Welsh names in that manner.


Ignorance? But then again, why not put an s on the end of a Welsh
mountain to make it plural?


Anglicisations are not bad, but they should be like they used to be,
based on the sound of the original, not the spelling.(see Irish hill
names, or Cairngorm. ( I use Cairngorm for the Glen More one and Carn
Gorm for the other 4, but thats just my habit)

eg.. Carneths iso Carneds

Also places like Wales and parts of England, Transylvania etc that
have different languages often use totally different names for places
in their respective languages. Llanandras - Presteigne , Llwydlo -
Ludlow , Brasso - Brasov - Kronstadt etc. The spelling of Paris in
English is probably a coincidence, its a different word.


The Welsh do it with English names too. Bwcle for Buckley. Wrecsam
for Wrexham etc. I know these places are in Wales but the names are
English ones.

Porthmadog is a more extreme example.

A lot of peaks in the Mamores have English names...These are used by
locals in Kinlochleven. They are often translations of the Gaelic ,
they are genuine English names. Not clumsy puns and no need to try and
work out what version of Na Gruagaichean to use...


A bit like The Cobbler then.

--
Adrian
  #70  
Old December 19th 04, 07:02 PM
Adrian Tupper
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Posts: n/a
Default

"druidh" wrote in
k:


"Adrian Tupper" wrote in message
...
(RJ Webb) wrote in news:41c1610f.6020921
@usenet.plus.net:


Yes, I was thinking how a Yorkshireman would tell someone he was
going to Paris. Eh up love, Ah'm just of t' Pareee fer't weekend!


Only common English versions exist for very few Highland Hills....
(Cairngorm , Ben Nevis etc)


So Cairngorm (Engligh pronounciation) is OK but anything elseGorm
should be said with a Scots dialect?

Going back to the French analogy, even cities which don't have
English equivalents (and I think only Paris and Dunkirk do) will be
pronounced differently in a French accent. We say Mont-Pell-Ear but
they say Mon-Pur-Li'ay (and we both write Montpellier) and we still
understand each other!


Actually, I'd say Mon-Pur-Li'ay too - but them I'm from Edinburgh and
grew up near Montpellier Park and we always pronounced it the French
way. Must be all that Franco-Scottish crossover stuff. Like Petty
France (actually Petit France) where the new Infirmary is.


Good for you.

I'd separately heard that the Edinburgh version of the French city
(spelled with just one L for some odd reason) was pronounced
Mont-Peel-Eeya. Again from a local. Perhaps he lived on the other
side of the road from you, as it were ;-)

My favourite Edinburgh-French crossover is Burdiehouse, which
comes from Bordeaux House. Quite why that had to change I don't
know. Especially as Picardy Place survived in its original spelling.

--
Adrian
 




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