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lf: advice on back problems and lifting weights.



 
 
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  #1  
Old October 13th 03, 04:43 PM
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default lf: advice on back problems and lifting weights.

Hello,

My wife is 35 years old and almost 5'10" tall and 140lbs, her body
type is long legged, with petite features like a narrow lower back,
and small hands and feet, she has good genetics and was able to stay
reasonably fit all of her life without dieting or exercise.

She been earning a living as a cleaner for the pass 4years, this is
already tough type of work for a chick and yet she often ends up
carrying more then her fair share of the load at work, every once in a
while this will result in lower back pain lasting a couple days to a
week, she still goes to work with these sore backs but takes a muscle
relaxer to help get threw the pain and discomfort.

I'm guessing that part of her problem is she bends and lifts using her
back instead of her legs; this habit seems almost impossible for her
to break.

Her goal is to protect her back, plus she wants to drop a little in
weight (maybe 10lbs) and also wants keep her looks for as long as
possible while she ages, so she's thinking about working out with us,
but she doesn't really care much about being stronger and has no
athletic type goals so I'm not sure weather or not a weightlifting
routine is the best chose for her, I don't want to make her back worse
either.

I've never really experienced much in the way of back pain in my life,
so I really don't know of good advice to offer her. I'm hoping to get
some suggestions here. Maybe some type of stretching with some lifting
or other type excise that could strengthen her back, pull downs?
Deadlifts? Squats? If so any suggestions on volume and frequency for
her.

My son and I are dedicated to strength training we have a home gym
with a power cage and lots of free weights, plus a cable and pulleys
type machine for push downs or pull-ups or whatever. Our lifting
routine is basically lift every other day (day1- BP, squats, shoulder
press) (day3-chinups, deadlifts, clean and press, curls, and weighted
incline setups) on days off we work the heavy bag, box a couple
rounds, skip a bit then finish with some submission grappling.

Thanks Guys.


Let her start off very lightly, stretching first, then doing a set of
'good mornings'. The pain could also be stiff tight hamstring muscles.
Stiff leg deadlifts, again light, maybe what she needs.
good luck
  #2  
Old October 13th 03, 04:44 PM
longshot
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default lf: advice on back problems and lifting weights.

Hello,

My wife is 35 years old and almost 5'10" tall and 140lbs, her body
type is long legged, with petite features like a narrow lower back,
and small hands and feet, she has good genetics and was able to stay
reasonably fit all of her life without dieting or exercise.

She been earning a living as a cleaner for the pass 4years, this is
already tough type of work for a chick and yet she often ends up
carrying more then her fair share of the load at work, every once in a
while this will result in lower back pain lasting a couple days to a
week, she still goes to work with these sore backs but takes a muscle
relaxer to help get threw the pain and discomfort.

I'm guessing that part of her problem is she bends and lifts using her
back instead of her legs; this habit seems almost impossible for her
to break.

Her goal is to protect her back, plus she wants to drop a little in
weight (maybe 10lbs) and also wants keep her looks for as long as
possible while she ages, so she's thinking about working out with us,
but she doesn't really care much about being stronger and has no
athletic type goals so I'm not sure weather or not a weightlifting
routine is the best chose for her, I don't want to make her back worse
either.

I've never really experienced much in the way of back pain in my life,
so I really don't know of good advice to offer her. I'm hoping to get
some suggestions here. Maybe some type of stretching with some lifting
or other type excise that could strengthen her back, pull downs?
Deadlifts? Squats? If so any suggestions on volume and frequency for
her.

My son and I are dedicated to strength training we have a home gym
with a power cage and lots of free weights, plus a cable and pulleys
type machine for push downs or pull-ups or whatever. Our lifting
routine is basically lift every other day (day1- BP, squats, shoulder
press) (day3-chinups, deadlifts, clean and press, curls, and weighted
incline setups) on days off we work the heavy bag, box a couple
rounds, skip a bit then finish with some submission grappling.

Thanks Guys.
  #3  
Old October 13th 03, 05:18 PM
i'm_tired
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default advice on back problems and lifting weights.

longshot wrote:
Hello,

snip
Her goal is to protect her back, plus she wants to drop a little in
weight (maybe 10lbs) and also wants keep her looks for as long as
possible while she ages, so she's thinking about working out with us,
but she doesn't really care much about being stronger and has no
athletic type goals so I'm not sure weather or not a weightlifting
routine is the best chose for her, I don't want to make her back worse
either.


How far can she walk? Seriously. Two miles twice a day three or four days
a week will likely fix that lower back and will also likely help her drop a
few pounds. If she can't walk that far, maybe a mile twice a day four days
a week and gradually increase distance and walking speed to the two miles at
a brisk walk.


  #4  
Old October 13th 03, 07:51 PM
Bill
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default advice on back problems and lifting weights.

Her goal is to protect her back, plus she wants to drop a little in
weight (maybe 10lbs) and also wants keep her looks for as long as
possible while she ages, so she's thinking about working out with us,
but she doesn't really care much about being stronger and has no
athletic type goals so I'm not sure weather or not a weightlifting
routine is the best chose for her, I don't want to make her back worse
either.


Core strength development overall. Abcurls.

Would think that knowing correct form would be critical for her work.

If you know correct form, then she could benefit enormously. She may or may
not have enough flexibility to do them correctly.

Contract-release stretches for the hamstrings, and backs of her legs, which
load the back when tight.

Have often wondered how a person who works with their muscles day after day
ever recovers enough to get stronger.
Adding a lifting load could make things much worse, especially, if what her
muscles need most is to rest and recover.

Once recovered, flexible and using correct form she could develop strength
with gradual increases in lifted weight and avoid any further pain in the
future.


  #5  
Old October 13th 03, 08:51 PM
Mistress Krista
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default advice on back problems and lifting weights.


"longshot" wrote in message
om...

I'm guessing that part of her problem is she bends and lifts using her
back instead of her legs; this habit seems almost impossible for her
to break.



This is her problem right here, and no amount of weight training will fix
it. If she wants the pain to stop then the strategy must be multifactorial.
Yes, she can strengthen the area through exercise. She would use both
exercises that mimic job actions, such as deadlifts, Romanian DLs, stiff
legged DLs, etc.and exercises that strengthen the torso and entire body
generally.

But if she doesn't lift properly on the job then it doesn't matter. If you
don't let the back muscles do their job then they can't help, regardless of
how strong they are.


Krista

--
--------------------
www.stumptuous.com/weights.html
www.trans-health.com



  #6  
Old October 13th 03, 11:17 PM
Julianne
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default advice on back problems and lifting weights.


"longshot" wrote in message
om...
Hello,

My wife is 35 years old and almost 5'10" tall and 140lbs, her body
type is long legged, with petite features like a narrow lower back,
and small hands and feet, she has good genetics and was able to stay
reasonably fit all of her life without dieting or exercise.

She been earning a living as a cleaner for the pass 4years, this is
already tough type of work for a chick and yet she often ends up
carrying more then her fair share of the load at work, every once in a
while this will result in lower back pain lasting a couple days to a
week, she still goes to work with these sore backs but takes a muscle
relaxer to help get threw the pain and discomfort.

I'm guessing that part of her problem is she bends and lifts using her
back instead of her legs; this habit seems almost impossible for her
to break.

Her goal is to protect her back, plus she wants to drop a little in
weight (maybe 10lbs) and also wants keep her looks for as long as
possible while she ages, so she's thinking about working out with us,
but she doesn't really care much about being stronger and has no
athletic type goals so I'm not sure weather or not a weightlifting
routine is the best chose for her, I don't want to make her back worse
either.

I've never really experienced much in the way of back pain in my life,
so I really don't know of good advice to offer her. I'm hoping to get
some suggestions here. Maybe some type of stretching with some lifting
or other type excise that could strengthen her back, pull downs?
Deadlifts? Squats? If so any suggestions on volume and frequency for
her.

My son and I are dedicated to strength training we have a home gym
with a power cage and lots of free weights, plus a cable and pulleys
type machine for push downs or pull-ups or whatever. Our lifting
routine is basically lift every other day (day1- BP, squats, shoulder
press) (day3-chinups, deadlifts, clean and press, curls, and weighted
incline setups) on days off we work the heavy bag, box a couple
rounds, skip a bit then finish with some submission grappling.

Thanks Guys.


You have reason to be concerned. Below is from OSHA

BACK INJURIES - NATION'S NUMBER ONE WORKPLACE SAFETY PROBLEM
Preventing back injuries is a major workplace safety challenge. According to
the Bureau of Labor Statistics, more than one million workers suffer back
injuries each year, and back injuries account for one of every five
workplace injuries or illnesses. Further, one-fourth of all compensation
indemnity claims involve back injuries, costing industry billions of dollars
on top of the pain and suffering borne by employees.

Moreover, though lifting, placing, carrying, holding and lowering are
involved in manual materials handling (the principal cause of compensable
work injuries) the BLS survey shows that four out of five of these injuries
were to the lower back, and that three out of four occurred while the
employee was lifting.

No approach has been found for totally eliminating back injuries caused by
lifting, though it is felt that a substantial portion can be prevented by an
effective control program and ergonomic design of work tasks.

OSHA is considering ways to help employers and employees reduce these
injuries. The agency requested public comments October 2, 1986, to help it
develop either guidelines or regulations for manual lifting.

The agency is looking at both major categories of methods for preventing
lifting injuries--administrative controls and engineering controls. The
former includes carefully selecting and/or training workers so they can
safely perform lifting tasks. Engineering controls attempt to redesign a job
so lifting becomes less hazardous.

Suggested administrative controls include:

- Training employees to utilize lifting techniques that place minimum stress
on the lower back.

- Physical conditioning or stretching programs to reduce the risk of muscle
strain.

Suggested engineering controls include:

- A reduction in the size or weight of the object lifted. The parameters
include maximum allowable weights for a given set of task requirements; the
compactness of a package; the presence of handles, and the stability of the
package being handled.

- Adjusting the height of a pallet or shelf. Lifting which occurs below knee
height or above shoulder height is more strenuous than lifting between these
limits. Obstructions which prevent an employee's body contact with the
object being lifted also generally increase the risk of injury.

- Installation of mechanical aids such as pneumatic lifts, conveyors, and/or
automated materials handling equipment.

In one study it was determined that at least one-third of compensable back
injuries could be prevented through better job design (ergonomics).

Other factors include frequency of lifting, duration of lifting activities,
and type of lifting, as well as individual variables such as age, sex, body
size, state of health, and general physical fitness.

The approaches suggested include the NIOSH Work Practices Guide for Manual
Lifting(*) employing an equation using horizontal location, vertical
location, vertical travel distance and lifting frequency. Another approach
would put a maximum weight limit for any single lift, or a load-moment limit
which would consider the effect of the distance of the load from the
worker's body. Tables of maximum weights for different percentiles of male
and female workers have also been proposed.



Here is a very simple back safety course:
http://www.free-training.com/osha/back/Backmenu.htm

A link to McKinley Health Center's Back and Neck Care Guide:
http://www.mckinley.uiuc.edu/health-...back/back.html

Probably more than you wanted to know but I have recently strained a muscle
in my back and am anxious not to repeat it. The second link has exercises
as well as general safety information.

Also, your wife is not a 'chick' Show some respect for the woman who
shares your life!


  #7  
Old October 14th 03, 01:33 AM
Seth Breidbart
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default lf: advice on back problems and lifting weights.

In article ,
wrote:

Let her start off very lightly, stretching first, then doing a set of
'good mornings'. The pain could also be stiff tight hamstring muscles.
Stiff leg deadlifts, again light, maybe what she needs.
good luck


Do not stretch first.

Deadlifts are very good for the lower back.

Some people like this politically incorrect exercise: hold a dumbbell
by the end in both hands in front of you. (Start with a very light
one.) Touch the floor just outside your right heel with it. Stand
back up, touch the floor just outside your left heel with it. Do 5-10
reps to each side.

This will help strengthen the lower back for real-world type stuff,
where people often do things wrong.

Seth [I started with [email protected], but I'm crazy.]

  #8  
Old October 14th 03, 02:12 AM
Wayne S. Hill
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default advice on back problems and lifting weights.

Julianne wrote:

"longshot" wrote...

I'm guessing that part of her problem is she bends and
lifts using her back instead of her legs; this habit seems
almost impossible for her to break.


It is, but I believe Mel Siff cited a study that showed that the
risk of occupational injury was no greater with bent- and
straight-back lifting.

Her goal is to protect her back, plus she wants to drop a
little in weight (maybe 10lbs)


At her height and weight, she could use some more muscle
(whether she should drop some fat or not).

and also wants keep her
looks for as long as possible while she ages, so she's
thinking about working out with us, but she doesn't really
care much about being stronger and has no athletic type
goals so I'm not sure weather or not a weightlifting
routine is the best chose for her, I don't want to make her
back worse either.


It would be the best thing for her. More strength would help
her in her work and in everyday life.

I've never really experienced much in the way of back pain
in my life, so I really don't know of good advice to offer
her. I'm hoping to get some suggestions here. Maybe some
type of stretching with some lifting or other type excise
that could strengthen her back, pull downs? Deadlifts?
Squats? If so any suggestions on volume and frequency for
her.


Give her a whole-body routine, 3x per week, including squats,
pulldowns, bench, deads, shoulder press, and bent rowing.

You have reason to be concerned. Below is from OSHA

BACK INJURIES - NATION'S NUMBER ONE WORKPLACE SAFETY PROBLEM
Preventing back injuries is a major workplace safety
challenge. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, more
than one million workers suffer back injuries each year, and
back injuries account for one of every five workplace
injuries or illnesses. Further, one-fourth of all
compensation indemnity claims involve back injuries, costing
industry billions of dollars on top of the pain and
suffering borne by employees.


Yeah, yeah, yeah: so back pain is bad. Here's a quote from
Scientific American, Aug 1998: 48-53 (posted to Supertraining by
Mel Siff):

"An exhaustive review of clinical studies of exercise
and back pain found that structured exercise programs
prevented recurrences and reduced work absences in
patients with acute pain who regularly took part soon
after an episode of back pain had subsided. The
preventive power of exercise was stronger than the
effect of education (for example, how to lift) or of
abdominal belts that limit spine motion. Patients
experiencing chronic pain also benefited from
exercise. In contrast to acute back-pain sufferers,
who did better during a pain episode by resuming
normal activities than through exercise, chronic
back-pain patients substantially improved by
exercising even with their pain..... "

Here is a very simple back safety course:
http://www.free-training.com/osha/back/Backmenu.htm


Sucks.

A link to McKinley Health Center's Back and Neck Care Guide:
http://www.mckinley.uiuc.edu/health-...s/back/back.ht
ml


Sucks.

Also, your wife is not a 'chick' Show some respect for
the woman who shares your life!


For all you know, she likes it when he says that.

--
-Wayne
  #9  
Old October 14th 03, 06:09 AM
Julianne
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default advice on back problems and lifting weights.


"Wayne S. Hill" wrote in message
...
Julianne wrote:

"longshot" wrote...

I'm guessing that part of her problem is she bends and
lifts using her back instead of her legs; this habit seems
almost impossible for her to break.


It is, but I believe Mel Siff cited a study that showed that the
risk of occupational injury was no greater with bent- and
straight-back lifting.

Her goal is to protect her back, plus she wants to drop a
little in weight (maybe 10lbs)


At her height and weight, she could use some more muscle
(whether she should drop some fat or not).

and also wants keep her
looks for as long as possible while she ages, so she's
thinking about working out with us, but she doesn't really
care much about being stronger and has no athletic type
goals so I'm not sure weather or not a weightlifting
routine is the best chose for her, I don't want to make her
back worse either.


It would be the best thing for her. More strength would help
her in her work and in everyday life.

I've never really experienced much in the way of back pain
in my life, so I really don't know of good advice to offer
her. I'm hoping to get some suggestions here. Maybe some
type of stretching with some lifting or other type excise
that could strengthen her back, pull downs? Deadlifts?
Squats? If so any suggestions on volume and frequency for
her.


Give her a whole-body routine, 3x per week, including squats,
pulldowns, bench, deads, shoulder press, and bent rowing.

You have reason to be concerned. Below is from OSHA

BACK INJURIES - NATION'S NUMBER ONE WORKPLACE SAFETY PROBLEM
Preventing back injuries is a major workplace safety
challenge. According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, more
than one million workers suffer back injuries each year, and
back injuries account for one of every five workplace
injuries or illnesses. Further, one-fourth of all
compensation indemnity claims involve back injuries, costing
industry billions of dollars on top of the pain and
suffering borne by employees.


Yeah, yeah, yeah: so back pain is bad. Here's a quote from
Scientific American, Aug 1998: 48-53 (posted to Supertraining by
Mel Siff):

"An exhaustive review of clinical studies of exercise
and back pain found that structured exercise programs
prevented recurrences and reduced work absences in
patients with acute pain who regularly took part soon
after an episode of back pain had subsided. The
preventive power of exercise was stronger than the
effect of education (for example, how to lift) or of
abdominal belts that limit spine motion. Patients
experiencing chronic pain also benefited from
exercise. In contrast to acute back-pain sufferers,
who did better during a pain episode by resuming
normal activities than through exercise, chronic
back-pain patients substantially improved by
exercising even with their pain..... "


I'm not sure why you believe that your quote disagrees with what I posted.
The only difference is that your post recommends weight lifting for chronic
injuries. The references I cited were not such that they could make
individual diagnoses about what is chronic.

Here is a very simple back safety course:
http://www.free-training.com/osha/back/Backmenu.htm


Sucks.


I guess you would know best. Nice citation. Do you always base your
opinions on an established body of knowledge?

A link to McKinley Health Center's Back and Neck Care Guide:
http://www.mckinley.uiuc.edu/health-...s/back/back.ht
ml


Sucks.


Well, frankly, I was just trying to be helpful. Every once in a while, I
stumble into MFW because I need information from some of the regulars. And
invariably I am reminded how very rude and hateful some people are.

I understand that you are so very much more intelligent than me and that the
only arguement you need to put forth to establish your superiority is
"Sucks". Please also understand that I hold worthy adversaries to a higher
intellectual standard. For all I know you may have pecs to beat the band
but your manners are atrocious and I find you to be most offensive.

your wife is not a 'chick' Show some respect for
the woman who shares your life!


For all you know, she likes it when he says that.


I am assuming from his post that he cares deeply about this woman. And,
yes, maybe she likes it in private. However, in the general public the word
'chick' is a term, derived after an animal that is not particularly smart.
'Chicks' are an accessory. Women are a necessity. Regardless of what is
considered proper in a home, it is notable that most people regard the word,
'chick' as being derogatory.

j

--
-Wayne



  #10  
Old October 14th 03, 07:20 AM
David Cohen
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default advice on back problems and lifting weights.


"Julianne" wrote
"Wayne S. Hill" wrote
Julianne wrote:


I guess you would know best. Nice citation. Do you always base your
opinions on an established body of knowledge?



The MFW Database is extensive.


A link to McKinley Health Center's Back and Neck Care Guide:
http://www.mckinley.uiuc.edu/health-...s/back/back.ht
ml


Sucks.


Well, frankly, I was just trying to be helpful. Every once in a

while, I
stumble into MFW because I need information from some of the

regulars. And
invariably I am reminded how very rude and hateful some people are.



MFW serves to remind many people of the dark side of humanity. It's
our purpose...to provide a basis of comparison, so the good people can
feel better about themselves. Wayne is our Leader in this.


I understand that you are so very much more intelligent than me and

that the
only arguement you need to put forth to establish your superiority

is
"Sucks". Please also understand that I hold worthy adversaries to a

higher
intellectual standard. For all I know you may have pecs to beat the

band
but your manners are atrocious and I find you to be most offensive.

your wife is not a 'chick' Show some respect for
the woman who shares your life!


For all you know, she likes it when he says that.


I am assuming from his post that he cares deeply about this woman.

And,
yes, maybe she likes it in private. However, in the general public

the word
'chick' is a term, derived after an animal that is not particularly

smart.
'Chicks' are an accessory. Women are a necessity. Regardless of

what is
considered proper in a home, it is notable that most people regard

the word,
'chick' as being derogatory.



It's worse when Wayne starts throwing around "****" and "pussy" like
they were just words. Letters on a page. Irrelevant without context.
Silly Wayne!

Good thing I would never use such words, or be rude, or sarcastic. I'm
better than that.

David
--
"This is the worse forum alive."- kev2112





 




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