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Instant DOMS?



 
 
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  #1  
Old September 9th 04, 05:06 PM
Ellis
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Default Instant DOMS?

I have what is probably horribly simplistic view of DOMS vs lactic
acid "burn", in that I've always characterized DOMS as muscular pain
that usually doesn't manifest itself until a significant time after
exercise - 24 - 48 hours (for me at least) and may last for days if
severe.

Then there's the momentary burn sometimes felt during exercise which
recedes quickly once exercise ceases which I've always understood was
build-up of lactic acid beyond which the muscles can "flush" at any
one time.

I'm currently training for a marathon and yesterday completed my
longest run so far - a little over 3 hours. About 2 hours into the
run my legs were painful with what felt like typical DOMS. This
persisted through the rest of the day and is still present today
although staring to recede now.

So - were the first two hours of the run enough of a delay to create
DOMS or is this some other type of exercise-related discomfort?

Ellis
  #2  
Old September 9th 04, 05:15 PM
John HUDSON
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Default

On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 16:06:06 +0100, Ellis
wrote:

I have what is probably horribly simplistic view of DOMS vs lactic
acid "burn", in that I've always characterized DOMS as muscular pain
that usually doesn't manifest itself until a significant time after
exercise - 24 - 48 hours (for me at least) and may last for days if
severe.

Then there's the momentary burn sometimes felt during exercise which
recedes quickly once exercise ceases which I've always understood was
build-up of lactic acid beyond which the muscles can "flush" at any
one time.

I'm currently training for a marathon and yesterday completed my
longest run so far - a little over 3 hours. About 2 hours into the
run my legs were painful with what felt like typical DOMS. This
persisted through the rest of the day and is still present today
although staring to recede now.

So - were the first two hours of the run enough of a delay to create
DOMS or is this some other type of exercise-related discomfort?


Sounds like muscle spasm the forerunner perhaps of muscle cramps.

See: http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/e...cle/003193.htm


  #3  
Old September 9th 04, 05:18 PM
Keith Hobman
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Default

In article , Ellis
wrote:

I have what is probably horribly simplistic view of DOMS vs lactic
acid "burn", in that I've always characterized DOMS as muscular pain
that usually doesn't manifest itself until a significant time after
exercise - 24 - 48 hours (for me at least) and may last for days if
severe.

Then there's the momentary burn sometimes felt during exercise which
recedes quickly once exercise ceases which I've always understood was
build-up of lactic acid beyond which the muscles can "flush" at any
one time.

I'm currently training for a marathon and yesterday completed my
longest run so far - a little over 3 hours. About 2 hours into the
run my legs were painful with what felt like typical DOMS. This
persisted through the rest of the day and is still present today
although staring to recede now.

So - were the first two hours of the run enough of a delay to create
DOMS or is this some other type of exercise-related discomfort?



I don't think there is an issue of micro-trauma with distant running that
would cause DOMS. But I'm no expert. I think it is more systematic fatique
and chemical responses.

When I trained for marathons I'd do a somple weekly ramp of long runs -
basically start at 12 miles and work up to 24 by adding two miles a week.
I'd then do 24 for 2-3 weeks and taper off to 12 the week before the race.

If I did it again I'd use a wave loading scheme which allows for more
systematic recovery. So I'd do two weeks at 12, then a week at 16 and then
back down to 8. Next wave would be two weeks at 16, a week at 20 and then
back down to 12. Next wave would be two weeks at 20, a week at 24 and then
back down to 16 and possibly 12 and then run the race.

And I'd do more speed work than long runs during the week. Typically I'd
do a minimum of 50 miles a week. I think I'd do two HIIT workouts during
the week and then two recovery runs and the long run and that would be my
training.

Point is - marathon runners tend to really overtrain. Your pain may be a
way of telling you that. Do you have restoration runs and some variation
of training loads that allows for systematic recovery?

--
Dawn's cold kiss calls me
Forth I creep, blindly stumbling
Joy: Morning workouts.
Hugh Beyer's 'Haiku On Returning To Weights'
  #4  
Old September 9th 04, 05:36 PM
Ellis
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On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 09:18:32 -0600, (Keith Hobman)
wrote:

In article , Ellis
wrote:


I don't think there is an issue of micro-trauma with distant running that
would cause DOMS. But I'm no expert. I think it is more systematic fatique
and chemical responses.


I thought that the jury was still out on what actually caused DOMS?
I've certainly had DOMS-like symptoms before from endurance activities
before now.


When I trained for marathons I'd do a somple weekly ramp of long runs -
basically start at 12 miles and work up to 24 by adding two miles a week.
I'd then do 24 for 2-3 weeks and taper off to 12 the week before the race.

If I did it again I'd use a wave loading scheme which allows for more
systematic recovery. So I'd do two weeks at 12, then a week at 16 and then
back down to 8. Next wave would be two weeks at 16, a week at 20 and then
back down to 12. Next wave would be two weeks at 20, a week at 24 and then
back down to 16 and possibly 12 and then run the race.

And I'd do more speed work than long runs during the week. Typically I'd
do a minimum of 50 miles a week. I think I'd do two HIIT workouts during
the week and then two recovery runs and the long run and that would be my
training.

Point is - marathon runners tend to really overtrain. Your pain may be a
way of telling you that. Do you have restoration runs and some variation
of training loads that allows for systematic recovery?


I'm doing something similar to this already, although not as much
volume. It's my first marathon and although I had pretty good CV
already from hiking in the hills and gym work before about March of
this year I haven't run for 10 years or something.

I have restoration runs and a simple wave loading - "long" long run
one weekend shorter "long" run the next. Various distances during the
week but nothing over about 6-7 miles - some 3-4 miles. Two days off
a week, sometimes three. Steady increase in mileage for the last 3
months (although only up to about 30 miles a week now). This run was
only 16 miles so you have understand it's all relative when I talk
about "long" runs

Plus I'm not setting any land speed records here - everyone I talk to
/ read tells me to concentrate on just finishing the first one, time
goals come later.

I don't think I'm overtraining, I think it was just unexplored
territory for my body!

Thanks,

Ellis
  #7  
Old September 9th 04, 06:12 PM
Top Sirloin
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Default

Ellis wrote:

Thought about it, but in all honesty the science is sometimes a little
flaky over there. Not saying that it's not over here sometimes too,
but at least I've been here long enough to know who to take notice of.


At least they have lots of time to post because
they're constantly injured.

--
Scott Johnson / scottjohnson at kc dot rr dot com
  #8  
Old September 9th 04, 06:13 PM
Ellis
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On Thu, 9 Sep 2004 12:01:25 -0400, "Steve Freides"
wrote:

"Ellis" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 09 Sep 2004 09:18:32 -0600, (Keith Hobman)
wrote:
-snip-
I don't think I'm overtraining, I think it was just unexplored
territory for my body!


I can't comment on the science of it, but every time I've gone longer
than I'm used to, I've been sore during the 'new' portion and usually
for a few days afterwards. That's the point of endurance training,
after all, to get used to enduring the activity. The adaptations will
happen over time. It doesn't matter what you call it, the
pain/discomfort is normal and should lessen with regular training and
sufficient rest and nourishment.


Yup. The soreness wasn't unexpected and I'm taking it like a man

I was just interested in the techy science behind it.


30 miles/week and a 16 mile long run is bound to make you sore/tired.
From what I've read, it's perfectly normal for a first-time marathoner
to get around half their weekly mileage in their long run but, as you've
observed, sometimes it ain't a lot of fun. I used to try to stick to
the formula of not making my long run more than 1/3 of my weekly
mileage, but then again, I've never done anything longer than a
half-marathon, for which 10-12 mile long runs as part of 30-35 mile
weeks works just fine. Are you doing any cross-training as well?


Well I had planned to, but I'm finding it plenty just keeping up with
the marathon program I have. I did get out and about in Scotland last
weekend and did some fairly lengthy yomps with a heavy pack though -
great fun!


This question might be better asked on news:rec.running.


Thought about it, but in all honesty the science is sometimes a little
flaky over there. Not saying that it's not over here sometimes too,
but at least I've been here long enough to know who to take notice of.

Thanks,

Ellis
 




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