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Minimal routine advice?



 
 
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  #1  
Old December 28th 03, 09:24 PM
Mark Downing
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Minimal routine advice?

Hi guys,

I posted my routine here a week or so ago asking about stiff leg deadlifts
versus regular deadlifts and received some pretty good advice. My current
workout looks like this:

Workout 1
Squat
Push press
Chins

Workout 2
Deadlift
Bench press
One arm row

I alternate these two workouts about every other day using a modified HST
rep structure. When I get through this cycle I thought about adding some
plyometrics. I have already begun to walk/run on the treadmill for about 20
minutes on the days I don't lift, and I am going to add about 15 minutes of
heavy bag rounds also. I have a few questions:

If I were wanting to add power cleans to this routine where should I add it?
I thought about adding a power clean and press movement and substitute it
for entire workout 2 like this:

Workout 1
Squat
Bench press
Chins

Workout 2
Power clean and press

Wouldn't that be a pretty good total body workout?

Should I do the plyometrics on the same days that I lift? What plyometrics
would complement this workout?

Does anyone have any good ideas for minimalistic whole body workouts?


Thanks,



  #2  
Old December 28th 03, 10:28 PM
Wayne S. Hill
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Minimal routine advice?

Mark Downing wrote:

Hi guys,

I posted my routine here a week or so ago asking about stiff
leg deadlifts versus regular deadlifts and received some
pretty good advice. My current workout looks like this:

Workout 1
Squat
Push press
Chins

Workout 2
Deadlift
Bench press
One arm row


That's pretty good!

I alternate these two workouts about every other day using a
modified HST rep structure. When I get through this cycle I
thought about adding some plyometrics. I have already begun
to walk/run on the treadmill for about 20 minutes on the
days I don't lift, and I am going to add about 15 minutes of
heavy bag rounds also. I have a few questions:

If I were wanting to add power cleans to this routine where
should I add it?


Do you plan to continue with an HST rep structure? If so, I
don't think power cleans really fit that well. If not, then
this looks fine.

I thought about adding a power clean and
press movement and substitute it for entire workout 2 like
this:

Workout 1
Squat
Bench press
Chins

Workout 2
Power clean and press


I'd add rowing to Workout 2, but that's just me. Otherwise, I
like it pretty well.

Wouldn't that be a pretty good total body workout?


Yes.

Should I do the plyometrics on the same days that I lift?


That depends. First of all, I don't think plyos fit well with
HST, because they're more about developing explosiveness than
hypertrophy. If you're referring to lower body plyos, I'd
probably put them on day 2 (because plyos aren't that back-
intensive, and power cleans are more back-intensive than leg-
intensive).

What plyometrics would complement this workout?


Well, that depends on your goals. Are you training for a
particular sport?

--
-Wayne
  #3  
Old December 29th 03, 02:01 AM
Irish Golf Lad
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Minimal routine advice?

"Wayne S. Hill" wrote in message
...
Mark Downing wrote:

Hi guys,

I posted my routine here a week or so ago asking about stiff
leg deadlifts versus regular deadlifts and received some
pretty good advice. My current workout looks like this:

Workout 1
Squat
Push press
Chins

Workout 2
Deadlift
Bench press
One arm row


That's pretty good!

I alternate these two workouts about every other day using a
modified HST rep structure. When I get through this cycle I
thought about adding some plyometrics. I have already begun
to walk/run on the treadmill for about 20 minutes on the
days I don't lift, and I am going to add about 15 minutes of
heavy bag rounds also. I have a few questions:

If I were wanting to add power cleans to this routine where
should I add it?


Do you plan to continue with an HST rep structure? If so, I
don't think power cleans really fit that well. If not, then
this looks fine.


What rep structure would you suggest? Based on my reading and some advice
I've received here, I'm currently working through this:

2 weeks at 2x12
2 weeks at 2x9
2 weeks at 2x6
2 weeks at 3x3
1 week off
Add weight and start over...

Aren't power cleans sort of a plyometric exercise?

I thought about adding a power clean and
press movement and substitute it for entire workout 2 like
this:

Workout 1
Squat
Bench press
Chins

Workout 2
Power clean and press


I'd add rowing to Workout 2, but that's just me. Otherwise, I
like it pretty well.

Wouldn't that be a pretty good total body workout?


Yes.

Should I do the plyometrics on the same days that I lift?


That depends. First of all, I don't think plyos fit well with
HST, because they're more about developing explosiveness than
hypertrophy. If you're referring to lower body plyos, I'd
probably put them on day 2 (because plyos aren't that back-
intensive, and power cleans are more back-intensive than leg-
intensive).

What plyometrics would complement this workout?


Well, that depends on your goals. Are you training for a
particular sport?


Sort of... I've taken a sabbatacal from golf and started back my martial
arts training. I am studying traditional combat Jujutsu. I competed in
TaeKwonDo tournaments a few years ago, but I don't plan to compete in
Jujutsu. Our Ryu does a fair amount of ground work, so it's very similar to
wrestling.

Basically I wan't to look better, be stronger, faster, and quicker and be
better conditioned. And do it all in 20 minutes 5 times a week. I've
always stayed active, even when I wasn't competing. I'm 6', 185 and have a
32" waist, so I'm not bad out of shape now.




  #4  
Old December 29th 03, 03:47 AM
gps
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Minimal routine advice?

Irish Golf Lad wrote:

"Wayne S. Hill" wrote in message

snip
Aren't power cleans sort of a plyometric exercise?


No, I don't think they would qualify although they do have something in
common.

snip
Well, that depends on your goals. Are you training for a
particular sport?


Sort of... I've taken a sabbatacal from golf and started back my martial
arts training. I am studying traditional combat Jujutsu. I competed in
TaeKwonDo tournaments a few years ago, but I don't plan to compete in
Jujutsu. Our Ryu does a fair amount of ground work, so it's very similar to
wrestling.

Basically I wan't to look better, be stronger, faster, and quicker and be
better conditioned. And do it all in 20 minutes 5 times a week. I've
always stayed active, even when I wasn't competing. I'm 6', 185 and have a
32" waist, so I'm not bad out of shape now.


Since you're only lifting twice a week, I'm assuming that gives you
three other days for cardio and plyo work. One or two of these workouts
could incorporate plyos or be plyo only. I'd highly recommend getting a
book to give you some insight into what plyos are and how to implement
them. Donald Chu is The Man and has several books. Generally speaking,
you'd want to incorporate movements similar to your jj techniques if
possible. Plyos are most frequently associated with movements which
mimic sprinting and jumping, but they can be adapted to other motions.
ps
  #5  
Old December 29th 03, 04:29 AM
thewhit
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Minimal routine advice?


gps wrote in message
...
Irish Golf Lad wrote:

"Wayne S. Hill" wrote in message

snip
Aren't power cleans sort of a plyometric exercise?


No, I don't think they would qualify although they do have something in
common.


while this is somewhat semantical as to what are USUALLY referred to as
"plyo's", powercleans are most definitely plyometric.

i recall a famous (i think it was dreschler) WL'ing coach commenting on the
applicability of plyo's for his trainees. he said words to the effect of
"weightlifting is already so plyometric, it seems like overkill". while one
can argue with his conclusion, the premise is sound.

a powerclean is plyometric. a squat clean is more plyometric. the jerk is
DAMN plyometric.

snip
Well, that depends on your goals. Are you training for a
particular sport?


Sort of... I've taken a sabbatacal from golf and started back my

martial
arts training. I am studying traditional combat Jujutsu. I competed in
TaeKwonDo tournaments a few years ago, but I don't plan to compete in
Jujutsu. Our Ryu does a fair amount of ground work, so it's very

similar to
wrestling.

Basically I wan't to look better, be stronger, faster, and quicker and

be
better conditioned. And do it all in 20 minutes 5 times a week. I've
always stayed active, even when I wasn't competing. I'm 6', 185 and

have a
32" waist, so I'm not bad out of shape now.


Since you're only lifting twice a week, I'm assuming that gives you
three other days for cardio and plyo work. One or two of these workouts
could incorporate plyos or be plyo only. I'd highly recommend getting a
book to give you some insight into what plyos are and how to implement
them. Donald Chu is The Man and has several books. Generally speaking,
you'd want to incorporate movements similar to your jj techniques if
possible. Plyos are most frequently associated with movements which
mimic sprinting and jumping, but they can be adapted to other motions.
ps


this is correct. the generally accepted definition. my favorite
'conventional plyo" is the depth jump while holding dbell's in my hands.

whit



  #6  
Old December 29th 03, 06:17 AM
David Cohen
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Minimal routine advice?


"thewhit" wrote in message
hlink.net...

gps wrote in message
...
Irish Golf Lad wrote:

"Wayne S. Hill" wrote in message

snip
Aren't power cleans sort of a plyometric exercise?


No, I don't think they would qualify although they do have

something in
common.


while this is somewhat semantical as to what are USUALLY referred to

as
"plyo's", powercleans are most definitely plyometric.

i recall a famous (i think it was dreschler) WL'ing coach commenting

on the
applicability of plyo's for his trainees. he said words to the

effect of
"weightlifting is already so plyometric, it seems like overkill".

while one
can argue with his conclusion, the premise is sound.

a powerclean is plyometric. a squat clean is more plyometric. the

jerk is
DAMN plyometric.

snip
Well, that depends on your goals. Are you training for a
particular sport?

Sort of... I've taken a sabbatacal from golf and started back

my
martial
arts training. I am studying traditional combat Jujutsu. I

competed in
TaeKwonDo tournaments a few years ago, but I don't plan to

compete in
Jujutsu. Our Ryu does a fair amount of ground work, so it's

very
similar to
wrestling.

Basically I wan't to look better, be stronger, faster, and

quicker and
be
better conditioned. And do it all in 20 minutes 5 times a week.

I've
always stayed active, even when I wasn't competing. I'm 6', 185

and
have a
32" waist, so I'm not bad out of shape now.


Since you're only lifting twice a week, I'm assuming that gives

you
three other days for cardio and plyo work. One or two of these

workouts
could incorporate plyos or be plyo only. I'd highly recommend

getting a
book to give you some insight into what plyos are and how to

implement
them. Donald Chu is The Man and has several books. Generally

speaking,
you'd want to incorporate movements similar to your jj techniques

if
possible. Plyos are most frequently associated with movements

which
mimic sprinting and jumping, but they can be adapted to other

motions.
ps


this is correct. the generally accepted definition. my favorite
'conventional plyo" is the depth jump while holding dbell's in my

hands.

HULK JUMP! HULK SMASH!!

David


  #7  
Old December 29th 03, 06:33 AM
thewhit
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Minimal routine advice?


David Cohen wrote in message
hlink.net...

"thewhit" wrote in message
hlink.net...

gps wrote in message
...
Irish Golf Lad wrote:

"Wayne S. Hill" wrote in message
snip
Aren't power cleans sort of a plyometric exercise?

No, I don't think they would qualify although they do have

something in
common.


while this is somewhat semantical as to what are USUALLY referred to

as
"plyo's", powercleans are most definitely plyometric.

i recall a famous (i think it was dreschler) WL'ing coach commenting

on the
applicability of plyo's for his trainees. he said words to the

effect of
"weightlifting is already so plyometric, it seems like overkill".

while one
can argue with his conclusion, the premise is sound.

a powerclean is plyometric. a squat clean is more plyometric. the

jerk is
DAMN plyometric.

snip
Well, that depends on your goals. Are you training for a
particular sport?

Sort of... I've taken a sabbatacal from golf and started back

my
martial
arts training. I am studying traditional combat Jujutsu. I

competed in
TaeKwonDo tournaments a few years ago, but I don't plan to

compete in
Jujutsu. Our Ryu does a fair amount of ground work, so it's

very
similar to
wrestling.

Basically I wan't to look better, be stronger, faster, and

quicker and
be
better conditioned. And do it all in 20 minutes 5 times a week.

I've
always stayed active, even when I wasn't competing. I'm 6', 185

and
have a
32" waist, so I'm not bad out of shape now.

Since you're only lifting twice a week, I'm assuming that gives

you
three other days for cardio and plyo work. One or two of these

workouts
could incorporate plyos or be plyo only. I'd highly recommend

getting a
book to give you some insight into what plyos are and how to

implement
them. Donald Chu is The Man and has several books. Generally

speaking,
you'd want to incorporate movements similar to your jj techniques

if
possible. Plyos are most frequently associated with movements

which
mimic sprinting and jumping, but they can be adapted to other

motions.
ps


this is correct. the generally accepted definition. my favorite
'conventional plyo" is the depth jump while holding dbell's in my

hands.

HULK JUMP! HULK SMASH!!

David


it's not easy being green. or peanut butter

whit





  #8  
Old December 29th 03, 01:36 PM
Wayne S. Hill
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Minimal routine advice?

thewhit wrote:

this is correct. the generally accepted definition. my
favorite 'conventional plyo" is the depth jump while holding
dbell's in my hands.

whit


OK, now will you guys please comment on a set/rep scheme for his
PC's?

--
-Wayne
  #9  
Old December 29th 03, 01:42 PM
Wayne S. Hill
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Minimal routine advice?

Irish Golf Lad wrote:

"Wayne S. Hill" wrote...

If I were wanting to add power cleans to this routine
where should I add it?


Do you plan to continue with an HST rep structure? If so,
I don't think power cleans really fit that well. If not,
then this looks fine.


What rep structure would you suggest? Based on my reading
and some advice I've received here, I'm currently working
through this:

2 weeks at 2x12
2 weeks at 2x9
2 weeks at 2x6
2 weeks at 3x3
1 week off
Add weight and start over...


In PC's you should rarely exceed 5 reps in a set, because form
is so crucial. Triples and singles are more common. You make
up for it with more sets, typically numbers like 5. If you're
just learning the movement, you might do 7 or 10 sets of 3 with
a light weight, but I'll let Whit and Pat comment in more
detail.

Aren't power cleans sort of a plyometric exercise?


This is such an arguable point that I'd rather not get into it.
As a fine technical point, I'd say no, but both plyos and PC's
are explosive and thus train the same strength characteristic
(but in different muscles).
  #10  
Old December 29th 03, 03:00 PM
Mark Downing
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Minimal routine advice?


"gps" wrote in message
...
Since you're only lifting twice a week, I'm assuming that gives you
three other days for cardio and plyo work. One or two of these workouts
could incorporate plyos or be plyo only. I'd highly recommend getting a
book to give you some insight into what plyos are and how to implement
them. Donald Chu is The Man and has several books. Generally speaking,
you'd want to incorporate movements similar to your jj techniques if
possible. Plyos are most frequently associated with movements which
mimic sprinting and jumping, but they can be adapted to other motions.
ps


I'm actually lifting 3x per week. I alternate workout 1 & workout 2 every
other workout.


 




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