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Should I have "trail-running" shoes?



 
 
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  #1  
Old April 22nd 04, 11:01 PM
TopCounsel
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Default Should I have "trail-running" shoes?

My once-a-week trail-running thing (20/80 road/trail) is something I am going
to invert for a few months to probably about 80/20, as I work to recover a
partially-torn calf. I am finding the softer surfaces a bonus, plus I think I
can use the miscellaneous muscle strengthening that trail running should offer.

I've been doing my dirt running so far in an already well-worn pair of ASICs
Gel-Cumulus, and they are comfortable enough for the purpose, but the trails
are thrashing them very fast. Too much exposed soft foam underbelly, and the
shoes seem designed to pick up dirt and sand on purpose. I'm pretty sure I
should get a pair with more rugged outer materials, both on the sole and the
upper. However, I do not want anything with weird motion-control bits that
restrain flexibility, and right now I definitely need ample cushioning.

Is there a trail-running shoe or two that fills this bill to anyone's
knowledge? I have a slight bias for ASICS shoes, and I know they make a
trail-runner called the Trabuco. Anyone run in this shoe? Other shoe
suggestions for an experienced but slightly-in-need-of-repair runner who's
increasing his trail work?
  #2  
Old April 22nd 04, 11:10 PM
Robert Grumbine
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Default Should I have "trail-running" shoes?

In article ,
TopCounsel wrote:
My once-a-week trail-running thing (20/80 road/trail) is something I am going
to invert for a few months to probably about 80/20, as I work to recover a
partially-torn calf. I am finding the softer surfaces a bonus, plus I think I
can use the miscellaneous muscle strengthening that trail running should offer.

I've been doing my dirt running so far in an already well-worn pair of ASICs
Gel-Cumulus, and they are comfortable enough for the purpose, but the trails
are thrashing them very fast. Too much exposed soft foam underbelly, and the
shoes seem designed to pick up dirt and sand on purpose. I'm pretty sure I
should get a pair with more rugged outer materials, both on the sole and the
upper. However, I do not want anything with weird motion-control bits that
restrain flexibility, and right now I definitely need ample cushioning.

Is there a trail-running shoe or two that fills this bill to anyone's
knowledge? I have a slight bias for ASICS shoes, and I know they make a
trail-runner called the Trabuco. Anyone run in this shoe? Other shoe
suggestions for an experienced but slightly-in-need-of-repair runner who's
increasing his trail work?


Your trail is basically dirt? i.e., you don't have sharp rocks or
many tree roots? If these are the case, not much reason for a trail
shoe. Just treat your calf to a new pair of shoes that won't let
the dirt in and have at it. I do almost all my trail running in
regular runners. I've gotten a pair of trail shoes, but the only
times I've felt glad to have them are when I'm going over a lot of
rock and root.

For the top, you might investigate trail gaiters.

--
Robert Grumbine http://www.radix.net/~bobg/ Science faqs and amateur activities notes and links.
Sagredo (Galileo Galilei) "You present these recondite matters with too much
evidence and ease; this great facility makes them less appreciated than they
would be had they been presented in a more abstruse manner." Two New Sciences
  #3  
Old April 22nd 04, 11:19 PM
TopCounsel
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Default Should I have "trail-running" shoes?

Your trail is basically dirt? i.e., you don't have sharp rocks or many tree
roots?

Very mixed surfaces. Lots of good soft (but slow) sand and silt, and long
stretches of harder dirt, but there are also thornier stretches of river gravel
(large and small), and places so covered with pine needles and tree bark that
you can't even see what the surface underneath is like. Those areas are
comfortable but risky because they can obscure tree roots, etc. There are
always a few exposed tree roots across the path here and there.

As I say, the Gel-Cumulus works fine but does not seem to hold up under this
type of running, and they pick up stuff like a magnet.


  #4  
Old April 23rd 04, 01:20 AM
Dan Stumpus
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Default Should I have "trail-running" shoes?

I run 95% trails and fireroads, and I use Nike Air Pegasus (not even the
trail version). The trail version is heavier, and I'd rather have a lighter
shoe than one which keeps the dust out.

The important thing for me is a good waffle sole for traction, and good
cusioning, which this shoe has in spades. Yeah, they get dirty pretty
quick, but I can handle the supercilious looks from the ladies at Starbucks.

I do hand prewash my socks in the sink when I get back; they get pretty
dirty.

--Dan


"TopCounsel" wrote in message
...
My once-a-week trail-running thing (20/80 road/trail) is something I am

going
to invert for a few months to probably about 80/20, as I work to recover a
partially-torn calf. I am finding the softer surfaces a bonus, plus I

think I
can use the miscellaneous muscle strengthening that trail running should

offer.

I've been doing my dirt running so far in an already well-worn pair of

ASICs
Gel-Cumulus, and they are comfortable enough for the purpose, but the

trails
are thrashing them very fast. Too much exposed soft foam underbelly, and

the
shoes seem designed to pick up dirt and sand on purpose. I'm pretty sure

I
should get a pair with more rugged outer materials, both on the sole and

the
upper. However, I do not want anything with weird motion-control bits

that
restrain flexibility, and right now I definitely need ample cushioning.

Is there a trail-running shoe or two that fills this bill to anyone's
knowledge? I have a slight bias for ASICS shoes, and I know they make a
trail-runner called the Trabuco. Anyone run in this shoe? Other shoe
suggestions for an experienced but slightly-in-need-of-repair runner who's
increasing his trail work?



  #5  
Old April 23rd 04, 01:26 AM
Keith Harrison
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Posts: n/a
Default Should I have "trail-running" shoes?

Asics Trabuco VII - I've used them for both road/trail running. July
issue of Running Times has positive review of the shoe.

My once-a-week trail-running thing (20/80 road/trail) is something I am going
to invert for a few months to probably about 80/20, as I work to recover a
partially-torn calf. I am finding the softer surfaces a bonus, plus I think I
can use the miscellaneous muscle strengthening that trail running should offer.

I've been doing my dirt running so far in an already well-worn pair of ASICs
Gel-Cumulus, and they are comfortable enough for the purpose, but the trails
are thrashing them very fast. Too much exposed soft foam underbelly, and the
shoes seem designed to pick up dirt and sand on purpose. I'm pretty sure I
should get a pair with more rugged outer materials, both on the sole and the
upper. However, I do not want anything with weird motion-control bits that
restrain flexibility, and right now I definitely need ample cushioning.

Is there a trail-running shoe or two that fills this bill to anyone's
knowledge? I have a slight bias for ASICS shoes, and I know they make a
trail-runner called the Trabuco. Anyone run in this shoe? Other shoe
suggestions for an experienced but slightly-in-need-of-repair runner who's
increasing his trail work?

  #6  
Old April 23rd 04, 09:20 AM
Dot
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Posts: n/a
Default Should I have "trail-running" shoes?

TopCounsel wrote:
My once-a-week trail-running thing (20/80 road/trail) is something I am going
to invert for a few months to probably about 80/20, as I work to recover a
partially-torn calf. I am finding the softer surfaces a bonus, plus I think I
can use the miscellaneous muscle strengthening that trail running should offer.


Another one getting hooked


I've been doing my dirt running so far in an already well-worn pair of ASICs
Gel-Cumulus, and they are comfortable enough for the purpose, but the trails
are thrashing them very fast. Too much exposed soft foam underbelly, and the
shoes seem designed to pick up dirt and sand on purpose.


Hmmm, are your present shoes just worn and hence wear is being
accelerated. If you started with a newer pair that didn't have "exposed
soft foam underbelly", would that help (or is that the way the shoe is
designed?).


I'm pretty sure I
should get a pair with more rugged outer materials, both on the sole and the
upper. However, I do not want anything with weird motion-control bits that
restrain flexibility, and right now I definitely need ample cushioning.


Road shoes work quite well on many trails, esp. if they have a sole with
some sort of lug-like tread. I used road Saucony Grid Stabils
(triangular lugs) for awhile but my PT switched me to the more flexible
Brooks Adrenaline (before he realized I ran trails) or Trespass (trail)
because of my biomechanics. On *my* trails, the Trespass does work
better than GS, but a trail shoe is by no means a requirement. Most of
my running has always involved snow so I've always tried to get some
lug-like sole. I haven't done any off-trail orienteering in brush so not
sure how Trespasses hold up when upper is abraded, but they did hold up
on the gravels of the local mountain. I found them more durable than I
was expecting (300 miles before I started using next pair - more than I
ever got from brick-like GS).

Asics 20xx are quite popular on both roads and trails. However, I've
noticed several complaints about the 2090 (in a couple places, not just
Doug's) and people getting injuries from it. (probably a lot more with
no problems)

I like Brooks Trespass 1, but it is a fairly open mesh and I get some
mud through the mesh - not a problem so far. It is very flexible, esp.
for a trail shoe. The newer Trespass 2 has a more durable upper (not as
porous) as well as a nylon protection plate to protect from rocks. It's
still fairly flexible, but they narrowed the toe box so I can't use it
for running.

TRail gaitors will keep stuff out of the top of your shoe (where ankle
sticks out), but not from passing through the upper - at least the ones
I've seen or heard about. Some people use bike overbooties or xc ski
boot covers to keep snow out the length of the shoe, but that's probably
a tad warm in your country and not an issue for you

Dot

--
"Success is different things to different people"
-Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope

  #7  
Old April 23rd 04, 11:41 AM
Doug Freese
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Posts: n/a
Default Should I have "trail-running" shoes?



Dot wrote:

TopCounsel wrote:

My once-a-week trail-running thing (20/80 road/trail) is something I
am going
to invert for a few months to probably about 80/20, as I work to
recover a
partially-torn calf. I am finding the softer surfaces a bonus, plus I
think I
can use the miscellaneous muscle strengthening that trail running
should offer.



Another one getting hooked


I've been doing my dirt running so far in an already well-worn pair of
ASICs
Gel-Cumulus, and they are comfortable enough for the purpose, but the
trails
are thrashing them very fast. Too much exposed soft foam underbelly,
and the
shoes seem designed to pick up dirt and sand on purpose.



Hmmm, are your present shoes just worn and hence wear is being
accelerated. If you started with a newer pair that didn't have "exposed
soft foam underbelly", would that help (or is that the way the shoe is
designed?).


I'm pretty sure I

should get a pair with more rugged outer materials, both on the sole
and the
upper. However, I do not want anything with weird motion-control bits
that
restrain flexibility, and right now I definitely need ample cushioning.



Road shoes work quite well on many trails, esp. if they have a sole with
some sort of lug-like tread. I used road Saucony Grid Stabils
(triangular lugs) for awhile but my PT switched me to the more flexible
Brooks Adrenaline (before he realized I ran trails) or Trespass (trail)
because of my biomechanics. On *my* trails, the Trespass does work
better than GS, but a trail shoe is by no means a requirement. Most of
my running has always involved snow so I've always tried to get some
lug-like sole. I haven't done any off-trail orienteering in brush so not
sure how Trespasses hold up when upper is abraded, but they did hold up
on the gravels of the local mountain. I found them more durable than I
was expecting (300 miles before I started using next pair - more than I
ever got from brick-like GS).

Asics 20xx are quite popular on both roads and trails. However, I've
noticed several complaints about the 2090 (in a couple places, not just
Doug's) and people getting injuries from it. (probably a lot more with
no problems)


I'll pipe in here for a few thoughts. Yes, to all of Dot's comments.
In general there is one thing consistent about what shoes to wear
on trails - there is no consistency. I'm one of those that use my
road shoes on trails for all my running. As Dot noted I was and avid
20NN fan until the 2090's but found the new model fell way short for
me on both roads and trails. Others have complained but there are
others that still love them. Personally I liked the 2000 series
because they are what I call a hybrid, cushioned stability. I got
some degree of correction without having to to sacrifice cushioning.

I was lucky enough to find a few pairs of the 2080's in my size to
get me through my last two races to include my 50 mile race last
weekend. With only one more pair left in the box and a 100 in July I
have to find another model. Some friends are pointing me to the
Kayano's. I'm not wild about the price of these but I'm not about to
start skimping on quality considering the amount of time I spend
wearing them.

I don't know what your trails are like so I can't really help. What
you are looking for - cushioning yet rugged is not easy and of
course highly subjective. The Cumulus seems weight wise to be
appropriate but maybe your current model is simply cooked. As for
getting pieces and parts in your shoes, welcome to trails. As Dot
suggested gaitors can be used but cut ventilation. Would you rather
wick less with gaitors or stop a few times to build a sand castle.


No answers just more useless data points to cloud the already
cloudy. Good luck and have fun on the trails. You may just find like
many of us that roads lose their luster and a lot kinder to your
body. I'm not suggesting you getting old but it is a variable.



--
Doug Freese
"Caveat Lector"


  #8  
Old April 23rd 04, 01:18 PM
Donovan Rebbechi
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Posts: n/a
Default Should I have "trail-running" shoes?

In article , TopCounsel wrote:
My once-a-week trail-running thing (20/80 road/trail) is something I am going
to invert for a few months to probably about 80/20, as I work to recover a
partially-torn calf. I am finding the softer surfaces a bonus, plus I think I
can use the miscellaneous muscle strengthening that trail running should
offer.

I've been doing my dirt running so far in an already well-worn pair of ASICs
Gel-Cumulus, and they are comfortable enough for the purpose, but the trails
are thrashing them very fast. Too much exposed soft foam underbelly, and the
shoes seem designed to pick up dirt and sand on purpose. I'm pretty sure I
should get a pair with more rugged outer materials, both on the sole and the
upper. However, I do not want anything with weird motion-control bits that
restrain flexibility, and right now I definitely need ample cushioning.


I had some trail shoes a while a go (NB806) and I find them way too stiff
now. I really think you should just go with the Cumulus.

Is there a trail-running shoe or two that fills this bill to anyone's
knowledge? I have a slight bias for ASICS shoes, and I know they make a
trail-runner called the Trabuco. Anyone run in this shoe? Other shoe
suggestions for an experienced but slightly-in-need-of-repair runner who's
increasing his trail work?


I also like Asics. I run in the Verdict (probably similar to the Landreth that
you've used), the Tiger Paw and the Nimbus.

The Nimbus isn't the lightest shoe available but then neither is the Trabuco.
It has a tough outsole (carbon rubber all the way, unlike their lighter shoes),
but it's still a cushioning shoe (no "stability" doodads). I'd say either go
with the Nimbus or just stick with the Cumulus. If you want a cushioning shoe
from Asics that's heavier than the Cumulus, the Nimbus is the only choice.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/
  #9  
Old April 23rd 04, 02:53 PM
[email protected]
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Default Should I have "trail-running" shoes?

Doug Freese wrote in message .. .
Another one getting hooked


Beats giving them GHB, your usual MO...
  #10  
Old April 23rd 04, 10:18 PM
[email protected]
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Default Should I have "trail-running" shoes?

Should I have "trail-running" shoes?

Only if you are EXCEEDINGLY ugly, otherwise regular running shoes will do.
 




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