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Scafell Pike from Seathwaite - estimates for how long??



 
 
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  #1  
Old February 12th 04, 11:16 PM
Frank Weaver
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Default Scafell Pike from Seathwaite - estimates for how long??

We're going up to the Lakes next week and intend to do Scafell Pike
for the first time. My wife is ill at the moment so I'll just be
doing it with my 13 & 11 year old boys (+ dog).

I'd like some estimates for times please - I don't want to push too
hard but want to ensure we get up & down in reasonable time

From what I've read the preferred route from Seathwaite is Taylorgill
Force - Sty Head - Corridor Route - Lingmell col - Scafell Pike.

Returning via Esk Hause and Grains Gill to Stockley Bridge.

many thanks for your speedy replies!!

Frank
  #2  
Old February 13th 04, 12:03 AM
Ron Barker
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Default Scafell Pike from Seathwaite - estimates for how long??

Given that daylight fades by 5 p.m. You need to aim to be off the fells by 4
p.m. to allow a safety margin. With boys of this age I would set off as
early as you can in the morning to allow for any eventualities and the weary
trudge of tired youngsters who do not have the stamina of older people.

The weather forecast is for cloud and potentially some rain so you may have
some navigation issues - certainly a map and compass job if the cloud is
thick.

Naismiths rule will tell you the average timing you should expect for a fit
adult. You then need to factor in extra time according to your expectations
from your boys. If you don't know how to do this then I would avoid this
route this weekend, especially with boys that age. Leave the first attempt
for better weather. The current fell conditions on Helvellyn reports snow
patches and recommends full winter gear should be taken.

I'm not wanting to be a kill joy but this is a long route in good conditions
and young kids die easily. Be sure you can get them out of anything you put
them into.

Ron


"Frank Weaver" wrote in message
om...
We're going up to the Lakes next week and intend to do Scafell Pike
for the first time. My wife is ill at the moment so I'll just be
doing it with my 13 & 11 year old boys (+ dog).

I'd like some estimates for times please - I don't want to push too
hard but want to ensure we get up & down in reasonable time

From what I've read the preferred route from Seathwaite is Taylorgill
Force - Sty Head - Corridor Route - Lingmell col - Scafell Pike.

Returning via Esk Hause and Grains Gill to Stockley Bridge.

many thanks for your speedy replies!!

Frank



  #3  
Old February 13th 04, 01:07 AM
Bernard
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Default Scafell Pike from Seathwaite - estimates for how long??


"Frank Weaver" wrote in message
om...
We're going up to the Lakes next week and intend to do Scafell Pike
for the first time. My wife is ill at the moment so I'll just be
doing it with my 13 & 11 year old boys (+ dog).

I'd like some estimates for times please - I don't want to push too
hard but want to ensure we get up & down in reasonable time

From what I've read the preferred route from Seathwaite is Taylorgill
Force - Sty Head - Corridor Route - Lingmell col - Scafell Pike.

Returning via Esk Hause and Grains Gill to Stockley Bridge.

many thanks for your speedy replies!!

Frank

My gut reaction to this question is "If you have to ask it, you should not
be planning such a walk". However my considered response is you need to ask
yourself the following questions.

How fit are you and your lads. Also how much experience of walking have
your lads got? One of the things I discovered with my sons when they were
that age was the fact that they can be fit but lack stamina, though a
chocolate biscuit every half hour did help. From my experience stamina is
built up over time, through experience.

How have you and your sons faired when you have done other walks? I would
compare their times on other walks with the corresponding Naismith time and
use that as guide.

According to my bit of string, it's just over 13km so let's round that to
14km and assuming I have not miscounted the contours, it's about 910m of
height gain. This gives a Naismith time of 259 minutes. I would include as
an absolute minimum an extra 10% for stoppage time.

Other factors to be aware of, is, time of year and weather conditions. You
need to be prepared for snow and ice. I am assuming you are not experienced
winter walkers and so you need to be prepared to turn back if conditions are
unsafe for your level of skill and experience. How are your navigation
skills in thick mist? Its amazing how much time can be spent taking and
checking bearings in thick fog and the effect that fog can have on your
walking speed if your are not totally confident in the route to follow.

In the end only you can really answer the question you have asked. If the
conditions are right and you are all fit, you'll get round no problem. If
there are fitness problems and poor conditions you may struggle.

Regards

Bernard


  #4  
Old February 13th 04, 09:25 AM
Rob Naylor
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Default Scafell Pike from Seathwaite - estimates for how long??


"Frank Weaver" wrote in message
om...
We're going up to the Lakes next week and intend to do Scafell Pike
for the first time. My wife is ill at the moment so I'll just be
doing it with my 13 & 11 year old boys (+ dog).


I think Bernard is being optimisitic in applying Naismith directly when one
of the party is 11. Maybe he's a very strong walker ( my son, at 11, could
easily handle 15-18 km walks with a pack and plenty ascent and descent, but
he was most unusual in that respect compared to most other 11 year
olds...and even he could suddenly lose energy/ motivation and start to get
chilled. As others have said, kids are like that, stamina-wise). I'd allow
7 hours at least for the trip, maybe more if your youngest's not a very
strong walker for his age.

At 13 I almost died on Scafell Pike, having been taken up there at about
this time of year (February half term) by a scoutmaster, without suitable
boots, and without a rope, ice axe or crampons in the party. I slipped on
some neve that my boots weren't tough enough to kick steps into, and fetched
up within about 4 ft of a long drop. Getting back up was a nightmare.
There are a couple of sections on the Corridor Route that can be quite dodgy
when iced up, so you need to think about possible security there...maybe a
20m walkers' confidence rope in the party?

You ought to be an experienced hill walker with at least some winter walking
under your belt and, as others have pointed out, be confident with maps and
navigation in poor visibility, before taking minors on this route. Having
said that, all my kids did Scafell Pike by various routes (from Wasdale) at
either 8 or 9 years old, and with very poor visibility at times on perhaps 4
out of 6 ascents. If you *are* a confident winter walker, then go for it.
If you've not had experience of snow/ice/ high winds at some altitude, I'd
consider putting the trip off until summer.

You do need to consider carefully what kit to take at this time of year, to
keep an eye on the weather, and not to be afraid to abort the trip if it
starts to get bad. On the kit front, think about things like goggles...we
were up in the lake district a few weeks ago and the high winds were blowing
so much spindrift around in some places that parties without goggles or some
eye protection were having real difficulty in seeing where they were going.
Sorry if all this is teaching you to suck eggs, but your initial post didn't
give the impression of being from someone at home with winter walking in the
mountains.

Rob


  #5  
Old February 13th 04, 10:12 AM
Frank Weaver
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Default Scafell Pike from Seathwaite - estimates for how long??

Thanks for your advice chaps.
No problems on the fitness front for the boys (and as long as my old
hamstrings keep working I'll be ok). Navigation shouldn't be a
problem either - haven't had much need of it for previous walks &
climbs but years of sailing experience should see us through ok - when
at sea we always turn back if it looks dodgy - so we won't be taking
unnecessary risks
  #6  
Old February 13th 04, 11:07 AM
Michael Farthing
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Default Scafell Pike from Seathwaite - estimates for how long??

In message , Frank
Weaver writes
Thanks for your advice chaps.
No problems on the fitness front for the boys (and as long as my old
hamstrings keep working I'll be ok).


So what commensurate walks have you done at this time of year with your
boys to be confident about this? Unless you have done 14km distance and
1000m of ascent you DO NOT KNOW whether it will be a problem. Now this
sort of walk has to be done on a first occasion, but one would expect a
certain amount of caution to temper the optimism.

Navigation shouldn't be a
problem either - haven't had much need of it for previous walks &
climbs but years of sailing experience should see us through ok - when
at sea we always turn back if it looks dodgy - so we won't be taking
unnecessary risks


W&£%$E(&IFPO*{)[email protected]{_!!!!!!!!!!!!?????????????????? !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You are kidding aren't you?

You don't seriously believe that ability to navigate sailing can be
translated into expertise on the hills?

If it was the other way round and a friend told you he could navigate at
sea with no problem because he was used to walking would you believe
him?

The two tasks are quite different and have different problems.

--
Michael Farthing
cyclades
Software House
  #7  
Old February 13th 04, 01:02 PM
RJ Webb
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Default Scafell Pike from Seathwaite - estimates for how long??


If it was the other way round and a friend told you he could navigate at
sea with no problem because he was used to walking would you believe
him?


No because , lets face it, marine navigation is far harder than hill
navigation.

Go on, pick a good weather day and enjoy!

Richard Webb
  #8  
Old February 13th 04, 01:26 PM
theo
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Default Scafell Pike from Seathwaite - estimates for how long??


"RJ Webb" schreef in bericht
...


No because , lets face it, marine navigation is far harder than hill
navigation.

Go on, pick a good weather day and enjoy!

Richard Webb


But on sea you don't encounter ravines, gills, streams you can't wade
through when in spate, rockwalls you can't climb, icy patches (normally),
snowfields etc. They can make you go the way your navigationskills say not
to go.

Theo


  #9  
Old February 13th 04, 02:17 PM
Michael Farthing
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Default Scafell Pike from Seathwaite - estimates for how long??

In message , RJ Webb
writes

If it was the other way round and a friend told you he could navigate at
sea with no problem because he was used to walking would you believe
him?


No because , lets face it, marine navigation is far harder than hill
navigation.


Gaelic is harder to learn than Esperanto (1), but an expert in Gaelic
cannot therefore assume he can immediately speak Esperanto without any
practice.


Go on, pick a good weather day and enjoy!

Richard Webb


I wasn't meaning to suggest he shouldn't do it, but it did strike me
that he seemed a little unaware of, or was too glibly discounting, some
of the potential problems.

Notes
-----
1. If you haven't looked at Gaelic, rest assured, it is an impossible
language.

--
Michael Farthing
cyclades
Software House
  #10  
Old February 13th 04, 04:16 PM
Gordon
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Default Scafell Pike from Seathwaite - estimates for how long??

RJ Webb wrote

If it was the other way round and a friend told you he could navigate at
sea with no problem because he was used to walking would you believe
him?


No because , lets face it, marine navigation is far harder than hill
navigation.

Go on, pick a good weather day and enjoy!

But write the trip report first - just in case. 8-)
--
Gordon
 




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