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  #11  
Old April 8th 08, 11:05 AM posted to uk.rec.walking
Terry Pinnell
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 254
Default SatMap

Peter Clinch wrote:

Mason wrote:
They've just reviewed the SatMap Active 10 GPS on the Gadget show along
with a Garmin and a Magellan, it came out rather well with the other two
being slow to update. It was really quick to enter a list of waypoints
compared with the

They praised its ease of use, even in thick gloves.

I suppose it all hinges on how seriously you take a review by the Gadget
show but all in all it did a lot better than I expected for some reason.


Most of the negative feedback on these has been about battery life,
which has apparently been addressed by a recent software fix that means
redundant screen refreshes are very significantly reduced, and computer
connection issues. The latter could be a rather major problem,
depending on your exact use of the machine.


I'd say most negative feedback has been about 4 issues, with battery
life in 3rd place:

1. Frustration over poor communication with the company over support
issues, exacerbated by broken promises.

2. No way of getting route data (e.g. from Memory-Map on a PC) until
recently. And I believe that's still in beta and not easy to use.
(This is 5-6 months after launch.)

3. Battery life for most users is very much poorer than claimed.

4. High cost of OS maps.

My main source has been as mentioned in my previous posts here about
SatMap/Active 10:
http://tinyurl.com/yvkcm5

--
Terry, East Grinstead, UK
  #12  
Old April 8th 08, 07:31 PM posted to uk.rec.walking
Mason
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 40
Default SatMap


"Peter Clinch" wrote in message
...
Mason wrote:
They've just reviewed the SatMap Active 10 GPS on the Gadget show along
with a Garmin and a Magellan, it came out rather well with the other two
being slow to update. It was really quick to enter a list of waypoints
compared with the

They praised its ease of use, even in thick gloves.

I suppose it all hinges on how seriously you take a review by the Gadget
show but all in all it did a lot better than I expected for some reason.


Most of the negative feedback on these has been about battery life,
which has apparently been addressed by a recent software fix that means
redundant screen refreshes are very significantly reduced, and computer
connection issues. The latter could be a rather major problem,
depending on your exact use of the machine.

As for waypoints... they're really an invention to let you tell a GPS
unit where you want to go. if you can see where you are on a map in any
case, I wonder to the exact degree to which they're actually useful?
Most of us don't cover our paper maps in little crosses, after all...


The waypoints entered were part of a challenge. The three presenters were
each driven blindfold to a different start point an equal distance from the
common finish.

They were given a long list of waypoints which when entered was the route to
follow to the finish.
--
Regards
Nick

  #13  
Old April 8th 08, 09:06 PM posted to uk.rec.walking
Gordon H
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 508
Default SatMap

Terry Pinnell writes
"Mason" [email protected] wrote:

They've just reviewed the SatMap Active 10 GPS on the Gadget show along with
a Garmin and a Magellan, it came out rather well with the other two being
slow to update. It was really quick to enter a list of waypoints compared
with the

They praised its ease of use, even in thick gloves.

I suppose it all hinges on how seriously you take a review by the Gadget
show but all in all it did a lot better than I expected for some reason.


Was that this on 'five Life Plus 1', Wednesday 2nd April, 32:00 to
23:00? Do you know if the programme gets repeated?

Channel Five again, Sunday 13th April at 10am until 11am.
--
Gordon H
(Remove "Invalid" to reply)

  #14  
Old April 8th 08, 10:49 PM posted to uk.rec.walking
Rob G
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 268
Default SatMap

On 8 Apr, 09:16, Peter Clinch wrote:
Mason wrote:
They've just reviewed the SatMap Active 10 GPS on the Gadget show along
with a Garmin and a Magellan, it came out rather well with the other two
being slow to update. It was really quick to enter a list of waypoints
compared with the


They praised its ease of use, even in thick gloves.


I suppose it all hinges on how seriously you take a review by the Gadget
show but all in all it did a lot better than I expected for some reason.


Most of the negative feedback on these has been about battery life,
which has apparently been addressed by a recent software fix that means
redundant screen refreshes are very significantly reduced, and computer
connection issues. The latter could be a rather major problem,
depending on your exact use of the machine.

As for waypoints... they're really an invention to let you tell a GPS
unit where you want to go. if you can see where you are on a map in any
case, I wonder to the exact degree to which they're actually useful?
Most of us don't cover our paper maps in little crosses, after all...

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/


Peter - Waypoints. Your point is I believe totally valid in the
Scottish hills where the land detail is so clear that navigation is
easy. I know that comment will get some flak, but it's true in
contrast to much of the country that our southern brethren trek
across. I will admit that this belief is created by reading posts in
this and similar forums, as time and again there is posts from those
south of the border worrying about finding a summit in the middle of a
flat piece of bogland.

I can well understand the full use of GPS systems and waypoints for
this field of walking - it is not necessary in Scotland where nature
is an adequate supplier of identification markers.

Rob
  #15  
Old April 8th 08, 10:54 PM posted to uk.rec.walking
Rob G
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 268
Default SatMap

On 8 Apr, 19:31, "Mason" [email protected] wrote:
"Peter Clinch" wrote in message

...



Mason wrote:
They've just reviewed the SatMap Active 10 GPS on the Gadget show along
with a Garmin and a Magellan, it came out rather well with the other two
being slow to update. It was really quick to enter a list of waypoints
compared with the


They praised its ease of use, even in thick gloves.


I suppose it all hinges on how seriously you take a review by the Gadget
show but all in all it did a lot better than I expected for some reason.


Most of the negative feedback on these has been about battery life,
which has apparently been addressed by a recent software fix that means
redundant screen refreshes are very significantly reduced, and computer
connection issues. The latter could be a rather major problem,
depending on your exact use of the machine.


As for waypoints... they're really an invention to let you tell a GPS
unit where you want to go. if you can see where you are on a map in any
case, I wonder to the exact degree to which they're actually useful?
Most of us don't cover our paper maps in little crosses, after all...


The waypoints entered were part of a challenge. The three presenters were
each driven blindfold to a different start point an equal distance from the
common finish.

They were given a long list of waypoints which when entered was the route to
follow to the finish.
--
Regards
Nick


I didn't see the program and actually as a non-enthusiast for GPS -
other than as a small and lightweight tool to confirm a location - it
doesn't interest me. But Nick's description of the test does strike
me as a comprehensive way of doing a comparative test - it even builds
in a degree of variability of the end-users ( the fact that I
initially typed 'ned-users' there was totally inadvertent, but may
have had some truth to it!)

Rob
  #16  
Old April 8th 08, 11:25 PM posted to uk.rec.walking
Paul Saunders
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,324
Default SatMap

Rob G wrote:

Peter - Waypoints. Your point is I believe totally valid in the
Scottish hills where the land detail is so clear that navigation is
easy. I know that comment will get some flak, but it's true in
contrast to much of the country that our southern brethren trek
across. I will admit that this belief is created by reading posts in
this and similar forums, as time and again there is posts from those
south of the border worrying about finding a summit in the middle of a
flat piece of bogland.


Let's be honest, finding a summit in the middle of a bog isn't really a
major problem (although it can be difficult to determine which is actually
the highest bit). The main navigation problems tend to occur at the
beginnings and ends of walks, which often require negotiating farmland to
get onto the open hill. And then of course, many open hills have been
blighted with forestry, which can also present navigation problems (which is
the best route through or around it? are the marked paths accesible or
not?).

I think I once heard on TV that the forested hills of South Wales constitute
the largest man made forest in Europe. Not sure if it's actually true or
not.

I can well understand the full use of GPS systems and waypoints for
this field of walking - it is not necessary in Scotland where nature
is an adequate supplier of identification markers.


Sounds lovely.

Paul
--
http://www.wilderness-wales.co.uk


  #17  
Old April 9th 08, 08:11 AM posted to uk.rec.walking
Peter Clinch
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,964
Default SatMap

Rob G wrote:

I didn't see the program and actually as a non-enthusiast for GPS -
other than as a small and lightweight tool to confirm a location - it
doesn't interest me. But Nick's description of the test does strike
me as a comprehensive way of doing a comparative test


"Comprehensive" should, by definition, cover all aspects. As Paul said
yesterday, how one uses the unit and goes about navigating oneself is
going to be a major aspect of how good a unit is to its owner: the only
times I typically want to visit a list of specific points along a
notional route is if I'm orienteering, and in that case they won't let
me take a GPS, so something that tests my ability to do that is a bit of
a moot point... But Paul's point was very fair because we want
different things and work in different ways. A single test like this
doesn't give much of an overview of other practical differences.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
  #18  
Old April 9th 08, 08:17 AM posted to uk.rec.walking
Peter Clinch
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,964
Default SatMap

Rob G wrote:

Peter - Waypoints. Your point is I believe totally valid in the
Scottish hills where the land detail is so clear that navigation is
easy. I know that comment will get some flak, but it's true in
contrast to much of the country that our southern brethren trek
across. I will admit that this belief is created by reading posts in
this and similar forums, as time and again there is posts from those
south of the border worrying about finding a summit in the middle of a
flat piece of bogland.


How about trying to find the top of a flat-topped Scottish mountain in a
whiteout? That's actually rather harder, on the whole.

My thinking was if I have a map oriented to the ground with my place
marked on it on the screen, it's not far off walking my marker over
where I want to be than follwing an arrow saying "it's over there!": I
have the same information, though on reflection I have rather more than
I need, and it requires a degree or three more processing and a bit more
skill and knowledge to work it that way. But at least I don't have to
bugger about putting waypoints in (was putting waypoints manually into
the eTrex last week, which is a bit of a palava...)

I can well understand the full use of GPS systems and waypoints for
this field of walking - it is not necessary in Scotland where nature
is an adequate supplier of identification markers.


Been a while since you saw the inside of a whiteout, perhaps? ;-/

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
  #19  
Old April 9th 08, 08:23 AM posted to uk.rec.walking
Alan White
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 117
Default SatMap

On Wed, 09 Apr 2008 08:17:33 +0100, Peter Clinch
wrote:

But at least I don't have to
bugger about putting waypoints in (was putting waypoints manually into
the eTrex last week, which is a bit of a palava...)


Memory-Map?

--
Alan White
Mozilla Firefox and Forte Agent.
Twenty-eight miles NW of Glasgow, overlooking Lochs Long and Goil in Argyll, Scotland.
Webcam and weather:- http://windycroft.gt-britain.co.uk/weather
  #20  
Old April 9th 08, 08:46 AM posted to uk.rec.walking
Roger
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,289
Default SatMap

The message
from Rob G contains these words:

I didn't see the program and actually as a non-enthusiast for GPS -
other than as a small and lightweight tool to confirm a location - it
doesn't interest me. But Nick's description of the test does strike
me as a comprehensive way of doing a comparative test - it even builds
in a degree of variability of the end-users ( the fact that I
initially typed 'ned-users' there was totally inadvertent, but may
have had some truth to it!)


On the face of it the presenters were presented with GPSs that they had
no prior knowledge of and were immediately expected to put in 2 dozen or
so waypoints before using their gps to follow the route without the
assistance of any external map or compass. The Satmap had a built-in
1:25000 map, the Garmin a crude map that did apparently include some
contours and features and the Magellan not very much at all.

Hardly a fair comparison as the cost of the internal map for the satmap
was not mentioned at all so any potential buyer starts off with the
mistaken impression that they get countrywide 1:25000 digital mapping as
well as a gps for less than 300 if they buy a Satmap unlike the crude
map they would get with the Garmin (which is almost certainly
countrywide).

The Magellan user (the delectable Suzi Perry) managed to follow her
route and even found time to praise the proximity alarm that helped her
to locate waypoints on the ground but she made a point about delay in
updating position.

The Garmin user (the clunky John Bentley) managed to get comprehensively
lost claiming at one time that he knew the car was somewhere behind him
when the gps told him it was somewhere in front of him. Also he claimed
that it took minutes to update position. Did he have a defective unit?
Did he have it in batterysave mode? How did he manage to direct the
driver he hitched a lift with back to the rendezvous? IMO the whole test
has more than a whiff of dishonesty about it.

The test area was somewhere in North Wales (SH grid refs). How the
presenters would have got on in a difficult area without a carefully
stage managed route and, for the satmap user, no 1:25000 mapping,
doesn't bear thinking about.

--
Roger Chapman
Nearest Marilyn still to be visited - Great Orme.
89 miles as the crow flies,
considerably more as the walker drives.
 




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