A Fitness & exercise forum. FitnessBanter.com

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » FitnessBanter.com forum » Fitness & Exercise » Walking in the UK
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

Scottish Outdoor Access Code



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old January 21st 04, 09:48 PM
Adrian Tupper
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Scottish Outdoor Access Code

"Duncan Gray" wrote in
:

"Tim Downie" wrote in message
...
druidh wrote:
Proposed code is published today. You can read it at
www.snh.org.uk/soac. For those NOT in Scotland - read it and weep!


When it comes to public rights of way I have to say that I think the
situation in Scotland is miserable. Only 1% are declared legal by
the courts and the rest are in a legal limbo.

Whilst a general presumed right of access might seem better, I'd love
to

see
all rights of ways in Scotland validated by the courts and recorded
by the OS on scottish maps.


The version of the Scottish Outdoor Access Code published today
represents the final stage of the process to enshrine the right of
access to almost all land in Scotland. This is considerably better
than having these rights restricted to narrow rights of way which, in
a Scottish context are almost pointless.

For anyone who hasn't been paying attention, the original proposals
for the new law were published by the Scottish Executive during the
momentous last week of February 2001. (I won't bring back the pain by
reminding you all what else was momentous about that and the following
weeks.) The original proposals were pretty bad, and a huge response
from the public to the consultation, allied to the GOMLs shooting
themselves in the foot, led to a much improved draft which was finally
passed into law by parliament, almost a year ago today.

The final stage before the access rights contained in the bill come
into force is tthe formulation of the Scottish Outdoor Access Code by
SNH. The new version will be submitted to the Scottish Executive who
can accept, reject or amend it, following which it will be debated in
parliament and finally passed.

If everything goes well, the new law could finally be in force by this
summer.

(Did anyone else notice that this week the GOMLs union, the Scottish
Landowners' Federation, decided to rename itself the pithy "Scottish
Rural P roperty and Business Association Ltd". One member in favour of
the change was Patrick Gordon-Duff-Pennington who is quoted as saying
"A long name has never troubled me." )


Yes, you have to see the funny side!

--
Adrian
  #12  
Old January 21st 04, 09:50 PM
Adrian Tupper
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Scottish Outdoor Access Code

"KRO" wrote in :


"druidh"
Proposed code is published today. You can read it at
www.snh.org.uk/soac. For those NOT in Scotland - read it and weep!


I've had a swift look through, and I can't help feeling negative towards
this. There's a lot of woolly definitions, old (unused) laws and what
exactly do they mean by "duty of care", when the first (has there been
one?) trial involving this ludicrous concept goes to court it will prove
very interesting indeed. I'll use common sense and take care of myself,
I don't drop litter or frighten animals, I close gates and only climb
fences
at the posts when I've no alternative. Landowners owe me nothing
except access, they owe the wider world a responsibility to be a
decent custodian of the countryside.
I know, in a perfect world eh? :-)

KRO




That's my attitude too. I feel laws can be a 2-edged sword.

--
Adrian
  #13  
Old January 21st 04, 10:12 PM
Phil Cook
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Scottish Outdoor Access Code

On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 20:44:48 +0000 (UTC), KRO wrote:

"Duncan Gray" wrote in message
The version of the Scottish Outdoor Access Code published today

represents
the final stage of the process to enshrine the right of access to almost

all
land in Scotland. This is considerably better than having these rights
restricted to narrow rights of way which, in a Scottish context are almost
pointless.


Duncan, I've read your post since posting my own reply (the negative one!)
can you explain what the original problem was that required the Access
Code in the first place? I was under the impression that, under the Law,
access was freely available? The problems I've encountered have all been
about vehicle access which I've just accepted as I can (semi) understand
that point. But I've not had anyone say, "You can't go there". I'm not
referring to the foot-and-mouth situation as that was unique. The code is
not published yet, so what problems can be expected right now in Scotland
regarding access? A genuine question as I'm not sure I've got the facts of
this debate.


AIUI access was freely available by common consent and understanding, which
isn't universal. The new law (of which the access code is part) codifies this
freedom of access and makes it available as of right. How this will affect the
Glen Lyon situation, to quote one notable GOML problem, we shall have to see.
--
Phil Cook looking north over the park to the "Westminster Gasworks"
  #14  
Old January 21st 04, 11:20 PM
druidh
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Scottish Outdoor Access Code


"Tim Downie" wrote in message
...
druidh wrote:
Proposed code is published today. You can read it at
www.snh.org.uk/soac. For those NOT in Scotland - read it and weep!


When it comes to public rights of way I have to say that I think the
situation in Scotland is miserable. Only 1% are declared legal by the
courts and the rest are in a legal limbo.

Whilst a general presumed right of access might seem better, I'd love to

see
all rights of ways in Scotland validated by the courts and recorded by the
OS on scottish maps.

Nooooooooooooooooooo

And end up with the dogs breakfast which exists south of the border? Don't
you need a degreee in morse code to reead all those green lines? Surely it's
much better to have open access, thereby avoiding the funnelling of walkers
onto defined paths?


druidh


  #15  
Old January 21st 04, 11:25 PM
druidh
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Scottish Outdoor Access Code


"KRO" wrote in message
...

"Duncan Gray" wrote in message
The version of the Scottish Outdoor Access Code published today

represents
the final stage of the process to enshrine the right of access to almost

all
land in Scotland. This is considerably better than having these rights
restricted to narrow rights of way which, in a Scottish context are

almost
pointless.


Duncan, I've read your post since posting my own reply (the negative one!)
can you explain what the original problem was that required the Access
Code in the first place? I was under the impression that, under the Law,
access was freely available? The problems I've encountered have all been
about vehicle access which I've just accepted as I can (semi) understand
that point. But I've not had anyone say, "You can't go there". I'm not
referring to the foot-and-mouth situation as that was unique. The code is
not published yet, so what problems can be expected right now in Scotland
regarding access? A genuine question as I'm not sure I've got the facts of
this debate.


I'm afraid that existing Law die NOT make access freely available - this has
been argued about for years and was never resolved even during the creation
of the Act. It's currently far too easy for landowners / managers to
restrict access when it suited them. This Act will create access rights in
Scotland which will be amongst the best in Europe. It goes without saying
that this change would never have been possible without devolution. Can you
imagine the House of the Dead (sorry Lords) letting this one through?

druidh


  #16  
Old January 21st 04, 11:45 PM
Duncan Gray
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Scottish Outdoor Access Code

"KRO" wrote in message
...

"Duncan Gray" wrote in message
The version of the Scottish Outdoor Access Code published today

represents
the final stage of the process to enshrine the right of access to almost

all
land in Scotland. This is considerably better than having these rights
restricted to narrow rights of way which, in a Scottish context are

almost
pointless.


Duncan, I've read your post since posting my own reply (the negative one!)
can you explain what the original problem was that required the Access
Code in the first place? I was under the impression that, under the Law,
access was freely available? The problems I've encountered have all been
about vehicle access which I've just accepted as I can (semi) understand
that point. But I've not had anyone say, "You can't go there". I'm not
referring to the foot-and-mouth situation as that was unique. The code is
not published yet, so what problems can be expected right now in Scotland
regarding access? A genuine question as I'm not sure I've got the facts of
this debate.


You're right in that access has largely been problem free in Scotland, and
that situation remains today. There are places where access has been a
problem, the Riddell family of Glen Lyon represent an obvious example, there
are plenty more if you read through the pages of Angry Corrie.

In any case, the new Act isn't just about covering the access that you and I
enjoy, going onto wild land and mountains. It's intended to provide for the
whole population, to secure access for people in the urban fringe and
lowlands.

The foot and mouth situation was actually more relevent than you might think
to how the new law panned out.

As the f&m situation developed the government (in Scotland) saw the damage
that was being done to the tourism industry and took action to encourage
reopening of access in areas which were remote from the outbreak. Ministers
became exasperated as many landowners ignored this and fought to keep their
land "closed". The backlash which followed saw a major change from the
original draft of the Land Reform Bill, which was dreadful and held
advantages for the landowners, to what we ended up with, not perfect, but
pretty good.

Previously, no one actually knew what the law of trespass in Scotland was. I
was following the debates in the Parliamentary Committees, during the
progress of the Land Reform Act, and it was quite amusing to see the members
struggling to get a grasp of what what the current position is/was. Even the
Law Society input was rejected by the committee as nonsense. They appeared
to have resorted to stating a position based on conveyencing law.
Alan Blackshaw's article from 2000 gives quite a good background.
http://www.mountaineering-scotland.o...accesslaw.html

When the new Act finally comes into force, hopefully later this year, I feel
we will be better off in two ways.

1. The legal position of people taking recreational access in the
countryside will be clearly stated in law. Yes, the SOAC will contain a lot
of woolly definitions, but you can't legislate for every situation which
will develop. The whole thing is based on "you have the right of access
provided you act responsibly". . It can be amended as time goes on, to react
to any problems which come up in the future, while the original Act remains
unchanged. Hopefully without lawyers charging ridiculous fees in the
interim.

2. The Scottish Outdoor Access Code is a guide to responsible behaviour. The
coming phase will see great efforts made to publicise it and educate the
populus on how to take a walk responsibly. There will be easy to read
summaries and such. Part of the government's intention is to get more people
to take some healthy exercise. With any luck most of them will keep to the
urban fringe and the planned "core path network" rather than annoy me by
appearing en masse on top of the Cobbler, or trying to find their way off
the top of Ben Nevis.

--
Duncan Gray

homepage - www.duncolm.co.uk
also www.mountaineering-scotland.org.uk
The Mountaineering Council of Scotland


  #17  
Old January 21st 04, 11:52 PM
Paul Rooney
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Scottish Outdoor Access Code

On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 18:15:38 -0000, "Duncan Gray"
wrote:



The version of the Scottish Outdoor Access Code published today


Too big for me to check quickly - but was the crazy night-restriction
idea dropped completely?

--

Paul

My Lake District walking site (updated 29th September 2003):

http://paulrooney.netfirms.com
  #18  
Old January 21st 04, 11:53 PM
RJ Webb
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Scottish Outdoor Access Code

On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 14:15:19 -0000, "Tim Downie"
wrote:

druidh wrote:
Proposed code is published today. You can read it at
www.snh.org.uk/soac. For those NOT in Scotland - read it and weep!


When it comes to public rights of way I have to say that I think the
situation in Scotland is miserable. Only 1% are declared legal by the
courts and the rest are in a legal limbo.

Whilst a general presumed right of access might seem better, I'd love to see
all rights of ways in Scotland validated by the courts and recorded by the
OS on scottish maps.



ROWs on maps only serve to show where you cannot go. Best kept off
the maps


Richard Webb
  #19  
Old January 21st 04, 11:58 PM
Paul Rooney
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Scottish Outdoor Access Code

On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 22:53:07 GMT, (RJ
Webb) wrote:

On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 14:15:19 -0000, "Tim Downie"
wrote:

druidh wrote:
Proposed code is published today. You can read it at
www.snh.org.uk/soac. For those NOT in Scotland - read it and weep!


When it comes to public rights of way I have to say that I think the
situation in Scotland is miserable. Only 1% are declared legal by the
courts and the rest are in a legal limbo.

Whilst a general presumed right of access might seem better, I'd love to see
all rights of ways in Scotland validated by the courts and recorded by the
OS on scottish maps.



ROWs on maps only serve to show where you cannot go. Best kept off
the maps


Richard Webb


I thought those brown lines (some have numbers) marked where the
access areas are.

--

Paul

My Lake District walking site (updated 29th September 2003):

http://paulrooney.netfirms.com
  #20  
Old January 22nd 04, 12:18 AM
druidh
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Scottish Outdoor Access Code




"Paul Rooney" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 18:15:38 -0000, "Duncan Gray"
wrote:



The version of the Scottish Outdoor Access Code published today


Too big for me to check quickly - but was the crazy night-restriction
idea dropped completely?

Absolutely - despite the efforts of the Landowners.

"Access rights can be exercised at any time of the day or night"


druidh


 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Off Topic : Late Night Comedians Skewer Bush Steve Weights 181 April 8th 04 07:38 AM
Cheap Scottish Farmed Salmon Lordy Weights 2 January 19th 04 04:41 PM
Scottish walks Gordy Walking in the UK 10 November 11th 03 01:41 PM
scottish walks BJ Walking in the UK 15 November 2nd 03 09:03 PM
Scottish Midges (was 'Thanks') W. D. Grey Walking in the UK 1 July 6th 03 10:32 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 11:10 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2018 FitnessBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.