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Scottish Outdoor Access Code



 
 
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  #21  
Old January 22nd 04, 12:42 AM
Martin Richardson
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Default Scottish Outdoor Access Code

In message , Paul Rooney
writes

I thought those brown lines (some have numbers) marked where the
access areas are.

LOL. The closer the lines are together the more access you have.

I am looking forward to going back to Inverlochlarig near Loch Voil and
irritating the GOML I met there by walking past his farm without fear of
breaching any rules.

--
Martin Richardson
216/284 Munros (34/34 'Furths')
32/89 Donalds 397/1552 Marilyns 439/439 Nuttalls

  #22  
Old January 22nd 04, 09:58 AM
Paul Rooney
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Default Scottish Outdoor Access Code

On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 23:18:40 -0000, "druidh"
wrote:




"Paul Rooney" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 18:15:38 -0000, "Duncan Gray"
wrote:



The version of the Scottish Outdoor Access Code published today


Too big for me to check quickly - but was the crazy night-restriction
idea dropped completely?

Absolutely - despite the efforts of the Landowners.

"Access rights can be exercised at any time of the day or night"


druidh


Good. I wonder how many decades it will take England to catch up with
the new Scottish law, assuming it gets through OK.

--

Paul

My Lake District walking site (updated 29th September 2003):

http://paulrooney.netfirms.com
  #23  
Old January 22nd 04, 10:00 AM
Peter Clinch
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Default Scottish Outdoor Access Code

KRO wrote:

Duncan, I've read your post since posting my own reply (the negative one!)
can you explain what the original problem was that required the Access
Code in the first place? I was under the impression that, under the Law,
access was freely available?


Under the law the Code is *required*: it's a fundamental part of the
act, built into it.

that point. But I've not had anyone say, "You can't go there".


I have, especially when I've been launching canoes and kayaks.

referring to the foot-and-mouth situation as that was unique. The code is
not published yet, so what problems can be expected right now in Scotland
regarding access? A genuine question as I'm not sure I've got the facts of
this debate.


As above, the code is an integral part of the Access Bill, so until the
code is fully approved the new bill isn't really fully active. ICBW but
right at this moment I believe the situation is as it used to be, which
gives you good access under case law but not watertight guarantees.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

  #24  
Old January 22nd 04, 10:01 AM
Paul Rooney
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Default Scottish Outdoor Access Code

On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 23:42:25 +0000, Martin Richardson
wrote:

In message , Paul Rooney
writes

I thought those brown lines (some have numbers) marked where the
access areas are.

LOL. The closer the lines are together the more access you have.


That's the idea, yes!

I am looking forward to going back to Inverlochlarig near Loch Voil and
irritating the GOML I met there by walking past his farm without fear of
breaching any rules.


I don't know the area - I'll get around to it though!
In fact, I have hardly ever had any problems while trespassing, but I
think that's because landowners seldom get out onto the hill.

--

Paul

My Lake District walking site (updated 29th September 2003):

http://paulrooney.netfirms.com
  #25  
Old January 22nd 04, 10:58 AM
Bernard Hill
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Default Scottish Outdoor Access Code

In article , Martin Richardson
writes
In message , Paul Rooney
writes

I thought those brown lines (some have numbers) marked where the
access areas are.

LOL. The closer the lines are together the more access you have.

I am looking forward to going back to Inverlochlarig near Loch Voil and
irritating the GOML I met there by walking past his farm without fear of
breaching any rules.


You mean where the OS 50K has a picnic site marked?

4446 1844


Bernard Hill
Selkirk, Scotland

  #26  
Old January 22nd 04, 11:22 AM
RJ Webb
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Default Scottish Outdoor Access Code


I don't know the area - I'll get around to it though!
In fact, I have hardly ever had any problems while trespassing, but I
think that's because landowners seldom get out onto the hill.


They do in Wales. I remember thefirst 4 visits to 'forbidden'
territory, as was in the Aran range. Every time I met a farmer. Mind
every time it was a friendly encounter and I was never challenged or
heard a cross word.

Seem to meet land managers all the time on Welsh hills. Met a few
landowners on Scottish hills as well over the years.. So far, always a
positive and pleasant experience.

Richard Webb
  #27  
Old January 22nd 04, 11:22 AM
RJ Webb
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Default Scottish Outdoor Access Code

On Wed, 21 Jan 2004 23:42:25 +0000, Martin Richardson
wrote:

In message , Paul Rooney
writes

I thought those brown lines (some have numbers) marked where the
access areas are.

LOL. The closer the lines are together the more access you have.

I am looking forward to going back to Inverlochlarig near Loch Voil and
irritating the GOML I met there by walking past his farm without fear of
breaching any rules.


You probably were not breaching any rules the last time...

Richard Webb
  #28  
Old January 22nd 04, 11:22 AM
RJ Webb
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Posts: n/a
Default Scottish Outdoor Access Code


I thought those brown lines (some have numbers) marked where the
access areas are.

--

Paul



Nice one......


Richard Webb
  #29  
Old January 22nd 04, 01:43 PM
KRO
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Default Scottish Outdoor Access Code


"Duncan Gray" wrote in message
You're right in that access has largely been problem free in Scotland,

and
that situation remains today. There are places where access has been a
problem, the Riddell family of Glen Lyon represent an obvious example,

there
are plenty more if you read through the pages of Angry Corrie.

I'm aware of the Glen Lyon situation, which wasn't a problem when I visited,
but if the gates were locked I would have climbed over, and would the
landowner then have legal right to ask me to leave, or use reasonable force?
Again I'm just trying to establish the situation as it stands at the moment.

In any case, the new Act isn't just about covering the access that you and

I
enjoy, going onto wild land and mountains. It's intended to provide for

the
whole population, to secure access for people in the urban fringe and
lowlands.

The foot and mouth situation was actually more relevent than you might

think
to how the new law panned out.

As the f&m situation developed the government (in Scotland) saw the damage
that was being done to the tourism industry and took action to encourage
reopening of access in areas which were remote from the outbreak.

Ministers
became exasperated as many landowners ignored this and fought to keep

their
land "closed". The backlash which followed saw a major change from the
original draft of the Land Reform Bill, which was dreadful and held
advantages for the landowners, to what we ended up with, not perfect, but
pretty good.


The government of both Scotland and the UK as a whole should have simply
said, access is available. They have the power, I can't see why a complete
overhaul was required, except here in Scotland I feel a certain section are
getting paid for nigh on hee-haw, so feel they must be seen to be *doing*
something for their inflated wages contributed by the populace.

Previously, no one actually knew what the law of trespass in Scotland was.

I
was following the debates in the Parliamentary Committees, during the
progress of the Land Reform Act, and it was quite amusing to see the

members
struggling to get a grasp of what what the current position is/was. Even

the
Law Society input was rejected by the committee as nonsense. They appeared
to have resorted to stating a position based on conveyencing law.
Alan Blackshaw's article from 2000 gives quite a good background.
http://www.mountaineering-scotland.o...accesslaw.html


I've read the link and still don't know what the law of trespass in Scotland
is,
or if anyone can agree whether there is one or not. I find that astonishing!

When the new Act finally comes into force, hopefully later this year, I

feel
we will be better off in two ways.

1. The legal position of people taking recreational access in the
countryside will be clearly stated in law. Yes, the SOAC will contain a

lot
of woolly definitions, but you can't legislate for every situation which
will develop. The whole thing is based on "you have the right of access
provided you act responsibly". . It can be amended as time goes on, to

react
to any problems which come up in the future, while the original Act

remains
unchanged. Hopefully without lawyers charging ridiculous fees in the
interim.

Sorry, I don't feel any need to have my recreation clearly stated in law.
Although I do accept some would be happier *knowing* the legalities of
their position while "accessing" the countryside.

2. The Scottish Outdoor Access Code is a guide to responsible behaviour.

The
coming phase will see great efforts made to publicise it and educate the
populus on how to take a walk responsibly. There will be easy to read
summaries and such. Part of the government's intention is to get more

people
to take some healthy exercise. With any luck most of them will keep to the
urban fringe and the planned "core path network" rather than annoy me by
appearing en masse on top of the Cobbler, or trying to find their way off
the top of Ben Nevis.


Well that part is fair enough, nothing wrong about a guide to responsible
behaviour, as long as you don't need to carry a licence saying you've
undertaken a multiple choice on the subject. Don't laugh.

I remain a proponent of the common sense approach, I simply feel the
law is intruding into far too many areas of my life already. I'll just
continue the way I have been, having said that I'll probably be following
most of the new Act anyway. By common sense and not because I've
been told to.

KRO


KRO


  #30  
Old January 22nd 04, 03:27 PM
RJ Webb
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Default Scottish Outdoor Access Code

On Thu, 22 Jan 2004 12:43:42 +0000 (UTC), "KRO" wrote:


"Duncan Gray" wrote in message
You're right in that access has largely been problem free in Scotland,

and
that situation remains today. There are places where access has been a
problem, the Riddell family of Glen Lyon represent an obvious example,

there
are plenty more if you read through the pages of Angry Corrie.

I'm aware of the Glen Lyon situation, which wasn't a problem when I visited,
but if the gates were locked I would have climbed over, and would the
landowner then have legal right to ask me to leave, or use reasonable force?
Again I'm just trying to establish the situation as it stands at the moment.


Its done. However folk are often reluctant to leave their car there -
there is also a history of them locking folk into the , publicly
funded, carpark.

Probably easier to crawl under it. There are other ways round too.

Richard Webb
 




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