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Curvelinear correlations between total testosterone levels and fluidintelligence in men and women.



 
 
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  #1  
Old September 30th 03, 11:10 PM
Lyle McDonald
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Curvelinear correlations between total testosterone levels and fluidintelligence in men and women.

1 wrote:

Curvelinear correlations between total testosterone levels and fluid
intelligence in men and women.

Tan U, Tan M.

Department of Physiology, Medical Faculty, Ataturk University, Erzurum,
Turkey.

The relationship between serum total testosterone (T) level and fluid
intelligence (Cattell's Culture Fair Intelligence Test) was studied in young
men and women. There was no significant difference between IQs of men and
women. IQ tended to increase with T in men, except at very high T levels. It
was concluded that (i) T may be associated with IQ, even in samples with no
sex-related IQ difference; (ii) too low or too high T may be disadvantageous
for fluid intelligence in women; (iii) T may be advantageous for this kind
of IQ in men, except very high T levels.

what is fluid intelligence?


Do you yahoo? I found this in 5 seconds.

http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?...20intelligence

why does T have an effect on it?


Why as in what purpose does it serve?
or
Why as in what's the mechanism?

Lyle
  #2  
Old September 30th 03, 11:42 PM
1
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Curvelinear correlations between total testosterone levels and fluid intelligence in men and women.


"Lyle McDonald" wrote in message
...
1 wrote:

Curvelinear correlations between total testosterone levels and fluid
intelligence in men and women.

Tan U, Tan M.

Department of Physiology, Medical Faculty, Ataturk University, Erzurum,
Turkey.

The relationship between serum total testosterone (T) level and fluid
intelligence (Cattell's Culture Fair Intelligence Test) was studied in

young
men and women. There was no significant difference between IQs of men

and
women. IQ tended to increase with T in men, except at very high T

levels. It
was concluded that (i) T may be associated with IQ, even in samples with

no
sex-related IQ difference; (ii) too low or too high T may be

disadvantageous
for fluid intelligence in women; (iii) T may be advantageous for this

kind
of IQ in men, except very high T levels.

what is fluid intelligence?


Do you yahoo? I found this in 5 seconds.

http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?...20intelligence

i found something similar via google, but i wanted to check that it meant
the same in this context.

why does T have an effect on it?


Why as in what purpose does it serve?
or
Why as in what's the mechanism?

Lyle


I meant what purpose does it serve, but it would also be interesting to know
what the mechanism is as well.

if I read it correctly, high levels of T are good for intelligence but
exceptionally high levels are bad.

I can understand that having higher levels of t would be good for males from
an evolutionary point of view, they would be bigger and stronger so more
likely to be better hunters and protectors, but why does very high levels of
t make you less intelligent?



  #3  
Old October 1st 03, 01:17 AM
Lyle McDonald
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Curvelinear correlations between total testosterone levels andfluid intelligence in men and women.

1 wrote:

"Lyle McDonald" wrote in message
...
1 wrote:

Curvelinear correlations between total testosterone levels and fluid
intelligence in men and women.

Tan U, Tan M.

Department of Physiology, Medical Faculty, Ataturk University, Erzurum,
Turkey.

The relationship between serum total testosterone (T) level and fluid
intelligence (Cattell's Culture Fair Intelligence Test) was studied in

young
men and women. There was no significant difference between IQs of men

and
women. IQ tended to increase with T in men, except at very high T

levels. It
was concluded that (i) T may be associated with IQ, even in samples with

no
sex-related IQ difference; (ii) too low or too high T may be

disadvantageous
for fluid intelligence in women; (iii) T may be advantageous for this

kind
of IQ in men, except very high T levels.

what is fluid intelligence?


Do you yahoo? I found this in 5 seconds.

http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?...20intelligence

i found something similar via google, but i wanted to check that it meant
the same in this context.

why does T have an effect on it?


Why as in what purpose does it serve?
or
Why as in what's the mechanism?

Lyle


I meant what purpose does it serve, but it would also be interesting to know
what the mechanism is as well.


Well, considering just how little we know about the neurobiology of how
various chemicals affect behavior, I think the mechanistic answer is
going to be a long time in coming.


if I read it correctly, high levels of T are good for intelligence but
exceptionally high levels are bad.


You read it incorrectly.

high T is good for THIS ONE SPECIFIC type of intelligence (i.e. there
are more than one type) but high T had negative effects.

I can understand that having higher levels of t would be good for males from
an evolutionary point of view, they would be bigger and stronger so more
likely to be better hunters and protectors, but why does very high levels of
t make you less intelligent?


Again, that's NOT what this paper says. It correlated high T with ONE
type of intelligence and very high T with a negative impact. You can't
simply define a singular type of intelligence and say anything very meaningful.

Beyond that, consider what other things that high T (such as agression,
combativeness) might also be related to. During a fight, for example,
you need some fluid skills, the ability to react quickly, think
abstractly, all of which probably made it more likely that yo'ud
survive. Or perhaps in the dangerous world in which we evolved (and in
which some folks still live), the ability to think fluidly would have
provided better survival. If you can think quickly and abstractly and
recognize potentially fatal interactions (ancestrally: lion over the
hill; modern terms: that dude looks like a gangbanger), you can avoid them.

Perhaps too high of test makes you lose that capacity, you go into a
berserker rage because you are TOO agressive (i.e. you hear stories of
folks who get into a fight and just blank out until it is over, there is
no thought, no conscious capacity, just intensified agression until it
is over and they snap out of it). In a dangerous world, being too
agressive, picking too many fights that you could skip out of by being
more fluid, might very well get you killed (ancestrally: **** that lion,
I'm going to kick his ass, you get eaten; modern times: **** that
gangbanger BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG, you're dead).

It's all about balance, like everything else.

All of which is me just pulling ideas out of my ass, just so you know.

Lyle
  #4  
Old October 1st 03, 01:34 AM
1
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Curvelinear correlations between total testosterone levels and fluid intelligence in men and women.


"Lyle McDonald" wrote in message
...
1 wrote:

"Lyle McDonald" wrote in message
...
1 wrote:

Curvelinear correlations between total testosterone levels and fluid
intelligence in men and women.

Tan U, Tan M.

Department of Physiology, Medical Faculty, Ataturk University,

Erzurum,
Turkey.

The relationship between serum total testosterone (T) level and

fluid
intelligence (Cattell's Culture Fair Intelligence Test) was studied

in
young
men and women. There was no significant difference between IQs of

men
and
women. IQ tended to increase with T in men, except at very high T

levels. It
was concluded that (i) T may be associated with IQ, even in samples

with
no
sex-related IQ difference; (ii) too low or too high T may be

disadvantageous
for fluid intelligence in women; (iii) T may be advantageous for

this
kind
of IQ in men, except very high T levels.

what is fluid intelligence?

Do you yahoo? I found this in 5 seconds.

http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?...20intelligence

i found something similar via google, but i wanted to check that it

meant
the same in this context.

why does T have an effect on it?

Why as in what purpose does it serve?
or
Why as in what's the mechanism?

Lyle


I meant what purpose does it serve, but it would also be interesting to

know
what the mechanism is as well.


Well, considering just how little we know about the neurobiology of how
various chemicals affect behavior, I think the mechanistic answer is
going to be a long time in coming.


if I read it correctly, high levels of T are good for intelligence but
exceptionally high levels are bad.


You read it incorrectly.

high T is good for THIS ONE SPECIFIC type of intelligence (i.e. there
are more than one type) but high T had negative effects.

I can understand that having higher levels of t would be good for males

from
an evolutionary point of view, they would be bigger and stronger so more
likely to be better hunters and protectors, but why does very high

levels of
t make you less intelligent?


Again, that's NOT what this paper says. It correlated high T with ONE
type of intelligence and very high T with a negative impact. You can't
simply define a singular type of intelligence and say anything very

meaningful.

Beyond that, consider what other things that high T (such as agression,
combativeness) might also be related to. During a fight, for example,
you need some fluid skills, the ability to react quickly, think
abstractly, all of which probably made it more likely that yo'ud
survive. Or perhaps in the dangerous world in which we evolved (and in
which some folks still live), the ability to think fluidly would have
provided better survival. If you can think quickly and abstractly and
recognize potentially fatal interactions (ancestrally: lion over the
hill; modern terms: that dude looks like a gangbanger), you can avoid

them.

Perhaps too high of test makes you lose that capacity, you go into a
berserker rage because you are TOO agressive (i.e. you hear stories of
folks who get into a fight and just blank out until it is over, there is
no thought, no conscious capacity, just intensified agression until it
is over and they snap out of it). In a dangerous world, being too
agressive, picking too many fights that you could skip out of by being
more fluid, might very well get you killed (ancestrally: **** that lion,
I'm going to kick his ass, you get eaten; modern times: **** that
gangbanger BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG, you're dead).

It's all about balance, like everything else.

All of which is me just pulling ideas out of my ass, just so you know.

Lyle


your ideas sound reasonable.

I am trying to raise my levels of T naturally and came across the above and
was concerned that if I do this I might get some bad side effects.

would it be possible to raise levels of T via natural means that would be
considered excessive levels?

if not what can I do to raise your natural T levels?

I am weight training with heavy weights for 8-12 reps, taking a multivit and
min, EFA and creatine. Is there anything I can emphasise in my diet that
would encourage T production?

from what I have been able to understand T is made in the body from
cholesterol, but I don't really want to start eating massive amounts of that
as it appears to not be very good for you.


  #5  
Old October 1st 03, 02:07 AM
Lee Michaels
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Curvelinear correlations between total testosterone levels and fluid intelligence in men and women.


"1" wrote in message
...

"Lyle McDonald" wrote in message
...
1 wrote:

Curvelinear correlations between total testosterone levels and fluid
intelligence in men and women.

Tan U, Tan M.

Department of Physiology, Medical Faculty, Ataturk University,

Erzurum,
Turkey.

The relationship between serum total testosterone (T) level and fluid
intelligence (Cattell's Culture Fair Intelligence Test) was studied in

young
men and women. There was no significant difference between IQs of men

and
women. IQ tended to increase with T in men, except at very high T

levels. It
was concluded that (i) T may be associated with IQ, even in samples

with
no
sex-related IQ difference; (ii) too low or too high T may be

disadvantageous
for fluid intelligence in women; (iii) T may be advantageous for this

kind
of IQ in men, except very high T levels.

what is fluid intelligence?


Do you yahoo? I found this in 5 seconds.

http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?...20intelligence

i found something similar via google, but i wanted to check that it meant
the same in this context.

why does T have an effect on it?


Why as in what purpose does it serve?
or
Why as in what's the mechanism?

Lyle


I meant what purpose does it serve, but it would also be interesting to

know
what the mechanism is as well.

if I read it correctly, high levels of T are good for intelligence but
exceptionally high levels are bad.

I can understand that having higher levels of t would be good for males

from
an evolutionary point of view, they would be bigger and stronger so more
likely to be better hunters and protectors, but why does very high levels

of
t make you less intelligent?


Cuz you would wanna fight and **** everything that moves.

HTH



  #6  
Old October 1st 03, 06:58 AM
Lyle McDonald
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Curvelinear correlations between total testosterone levels andfluid intelligence in men and women.

1 wrote:

"Lyle McDonald" wrote in message
...
1 wrote:

"Lyle McDonald" wrote in message
...
1 wrote:

Curvelinear correlations between total testosterone levels and fluid
intelligence in men and women.

Tan U, Tan M.

Department of Physiology, Medical Faculty, Ataturk University,

Erzurum,
Turkey.

The relationship between serum total testosterone (T) level and

fluid
intelligence (Cattell's Culture Fair Intelligence Test) was studied

in
young
men and women. There was no significant difference between IQs of

men
and
women. IQ tended to increase with T in men, except at very high T
levels. It
was concluded that (i) T may be associated with IQ, even in samples

with
no
sex-related IQ difference; (ii) too low or too high T may be
disadvantageous
for fluid intelligence in women; (iii) T may be advantageous for

this
kind
of IQ in men, except very high T levels.

what is fluid intelligence?

Do you yahoo? I found this in 5 seconds.

http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?...20intelligence

i found something similar via google, but i wanted to check that it

meant
the same in this context.

why does T have an effect on it?

Why as in what purpose does it serve?
or
Why as in what's the mechanism?

Lyle

I meant what purpose does it serve, but it would also be interesting to

know
what the mechanism is as well.


Well, considering just how little we know about the neurobiology of how
various chemicals affect behavior, I think the mechanistic answer is
going to be a long time in coming.


if I read it correctly, high levels of T are good for intelligence but
exceptionally high levels are bad.


You read it incorrectly.

high T is good for THIS ONE SPECIFIC type of intelligence (i.e. there
are more than one type) but high T had negative effects.

I can understand that having higher levels of t would be good for males

from
an evolutionary point of view, they would be bigger and stronger so more
likely to be better hunters and protectors, but why does very high

levels of
t make you less intelligent?


Again, that's NOT what this paper says. It correlated high T with ONE
type of intelligence and very high T with a negative impact. You can't
simply define a singular type of intelligence and say anything very

meaningful.

Beyond that, consider what other things that high T (such as agression,
combativeness) might also be related to. During a fight, for example,
you need some fluid skills, the ability to react quickly, think
abstractly, all of which probably made it more likely that yo'ud
survive. Or perhaps in the dangerous world in which we evolved (and in
which some folks still live), the ability to think fluidly would have
provided better survival. If you can think quickly and abstractly and
recognize potentially fatal interactions (ancestrally: lion over the
hill; modern terms: that dude looks like a gangbanger), you can avoid

them.

Perhaps too high of test makes you lose that capacity, you go into a
berserker rage because you are TOO agressive (i.e. you hear stories of
folks who get into a fight and just blank out until it is over, there is
no thought, no conscious capacity, just intensified agression until it
is over and they snap out of it). In a dangerous world, being too
agressive, picking too many fights that you could skip out of by being
more fluid, might very well get you killed (ancestrally: **** that lion,
I'm going to kick his ass, you get eaten; modern times: **** that
gangbanger BANG BANG BANG BANG BANG, you're dead).

It's all about balance, like everything else.

All of which is me just pulling ideas out of my ass, just so you know.

Lyle


your ideas sound reasonable.

I am trying to raise my levels of T naturally and came across the above and
was concerned that if I do this I might get some bad side effects.

would it be possible to raise levels of T via natural means that would be
considered excessive levels?


Doubtful.

if not what can I do to raise your natural T levels?


Why do you want to raise my natural T levels?

I am weight training with heavy weights for 8-12 reps, taking a multivit and
min, EFA and creatine. Is there anything I can emphasise in my diet that
would encourage T production?


sufficient dietary fat and calories.


from what I have been able to understand T is made in the body from
cholesterol, but I don't really want to start eating massive amounts of that
as it appears to not be very good for you.


doesn't work that way

Lyle
  #7  
Old October 1st 03, 06:59 AM
Lyle McDonald
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Curvelinear correlations between total testosterone levels andfluid intelligence in men and women.

Lee Michaels wrote:

"1" wrote in message
...

"Lyle McDonald" wrote in message
...
1 wrote:

Curvelinear correlations between total testosterone levels and fluid
intelligence in men and women.

Tan U, Tan M.

Department of Physiology, Medical Faculty, Ataturk University,

Erzurum,
Turkey.

The relationship between serum total testosterone (T) level and fluid
intelligence (Cattell's Culture Fair Intelligence Test) was studied in

young
men and women. There was no significant difference between IQs of men

and
women. IQ tended to increase with T in men, except at very high T

levels. It
was concluded that (i) T may be associated with IQ, even in samples

with
no
sex-related IQ difference; (ii) too low or too high T may be

disadvantageous
for fluid intelligence in women; (iii) T may be advantageous for this

kind
of IQ in men, except very high T levels.

what is fluid intelligence?

Do you yahoo? I found this in 5 seconds.

http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?...20intelligence

i found something similar via google, but i wanted to check that it meant
the same in this context.

why does T have an effect on it?

Why as in what purpose does it serve?
or
Why as in what's the mechanism?

Lyle


I meant what purpose does it serve, but it would also be interesting to

know
what the mechanism is as well.

if I read it correctly, high levels of T are good for intelligence but
exceptionally high levels are bad.

I can understand that having higher levels of t would be good for males

from
an evolutionary point of view, they would be bigger and stronger so more
likely to be better hunters and protectors, but why does very high levels

of
t make you less intelligent?


Cuz you would wanna fight and **** everything that moves.


you should write books on evolutionary psychology

Lyle
  #8  
Old October 1st 03, 08:32 AM
Lee Michaels
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Curvelinear correlations between total testosterone levels and fluid intelligence in men and women.


"Lyle McDonald" wrote in message
...
Lee Michaels wrote:

"1" wrote in message
...

"Lyle McDonald" wrote in message
...
1 wrote:

Curvelinear correlations between total testosterone levels and

fluid
intelligence in men and women.

Tan U, Tan M.

Department of Physiology, Medical Faculty, Ataturk University,

Erzurum,
Turkey.

The relationship between serum total testosterone (T) level and

fluid
intelligence (Cattell's Culture Fair Intelligence Test) was

studied in
young
men and women. There was no significant difference between IQs of

men
and
women. IQ tended to increase with T in men, except at very high T
levels. It
was concluded that (i) T may be associated with IQ, even in

samples
with
no
sex-related IQ difference; (ii) too low or too high T may be
disadvantageous
for fluid intelligence in women; (iii) T may be advantageous for

this
kind
of IQ in men, except very high T levels.

what is fluid intelligence?

Do you yahoo? I found this in 5 seconds.

http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?...20intelligence

i found something similar via google, but i wanted to check that it

meant
the same in this context.

why does T have an effect on it?

Why as in what purpose does it serve?
or
Why as in what's the mechanism?

Lyle

I meant what purpose does it serve, but it would also be interesting

to
know
what the mechanism is as well.

if I read it correctly, high levels of T are good for intelligence but
exceptionally high levels are bad.

I can understand that having higher levels of t would be good for

males
from
an evolutionary point of view, they would be bigger and stronger so

more
likely to be better hunters and protectors, but why does very high

levels
of
t make you less intelligent?


Cuz you would wanna fight and **** everything that moves.


you should write books on evolutionary psychology

Either that or write scripts for Hollywood action movies.



  #9  
Old October 1st 03, 09:30 AM
Carnivore269
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Curvelinear correlations between total testosterone levels and fluid intelligence in men and women.

"Lee Michaels" wrote in message .net...
"1" wrote in message
...

"Lyle McDonald" wrote in message
...
1 wrote:

Curvelinear correlations between total testosterone levels and fluid
intelligence in men and women.

Tan U, Tan M.

Department of Physiology, Medical Faculty, Ataturk University,

Erzurum,
Turkey.

The relationship between serum total testosterone (T) level and fluid
intelligence (Cattell's Culture Fair Intelligence Test) was studied in

young
men and women. There was no significant difference between IQs of men

and
women. IQ tended to increase with T in men, except at very high T

levels. It
was concluded that (i) T may be associated with IQ, even in samples

with
no
sex-related IQ difference; (ii) too low or too high T may be

disadvantageous
for fluid intelligence in women; (iii) T may be advantageous for this

kind
of IQ in men, except very high T levels.

what is fluid intelligence?

Do you yahoo? I found this in 5 seconds.

http://www.everything2.com/index.pl?...20intelligence

i found something similar via google, but i wanted to check that it meant
the same in this context.

why does T have an effect on it?

Why as in what purpose does it serve?
or
Why as in what's the mechanism?

Lyle


I meant what purpose does it serve, but it would also be interesting to

know
what the mechanism is as well.

if I read it correctly, high levels of T are good for intelligence but
exceptionally high levels are bad.

I can understand that having higher levels of t would be good for males

from
an evolutionary point of view, they would be bigger and stronger so more
likely to be better hunters and protectors, but why does very high levels

of
t make you less intelligent?


Cuz you would wanna fight and **** everything that moves.

HTH


That, maybe...

You'd wanna work out more and be healthier.

Mexico is close enough to you, you have no excuse... ;-)

C.
  #10  
Old October 1st 03, 04:22 PM
Bob MacWilliam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Curvelinear correlations between total testosterone levels and fluid intelligence in men and women.

snip


I meant what purpose does it serve, but it would also be interesting to

know
what the mechanism is as well.

if I read it correctly, high levels of T are good for intelligence but
exceptionally high levels are bad.

I can understand that having higher levels of t would be good for males

from
an evolutionary point of view, they would be bigger and stronger so more
likely to be better hunters and protectors, but why does very high levels

of
t make you less intelligent?


Cuz you would wanna fight and **** everything that moves.


you should write books on evolutionary psychology

Lyle


Well he'd have to do it in a library or something because according to
evolutionary psychologists (or maybe just the fat ones) he couldn't
concentrate on anything for more than a few seconds with a
refrigerator nearby ;-)

B
 




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