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Bowflex, Crossbow, Schwinn



 
 
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  #1  
Old February 8th 04, 07:33 AM
Tom
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Default Bowflex, Crossbow, Schwinn

Hello, All,
Well, it's tax refund time, and my wife has given me permission to buy a
home gym!! I am intrigued by the bowflex, and noticed at a sporting goods
store that there is now a Schwinn Bowflex out, as well as the Weider
Crossbow. From what I've read online, it seems that the crossbow is a
decent machine, but I wanted to ask first. Does anyone have experience with
any of these 3 machines? How do they rate? Is it worth it to pay more for
the Schwinn or the Bowflex, or is the Weider an awesome deal? I look
forward to hearing comments/advice.

Many thanks,
Tom


  #2  
Old February 8th 04, 11:38 AM
Dr. Dickie
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Posts: n/a
Default Bowflex, Crossbow, Schwinn

On Sat, 7 Feb 2004 22:33:40 -0800, "Tom"
wrote:

Hello, All,
Well, it's tax refund time, and my wife has given me permission to buy a
home gym!! I am intrigued by the bowflex, and noticed at a sporting goods
store that there is now a Schwinn Bowflex out, as well as the Weider
Crossbow. From what I've read online, it seems that the crossbow is a
decent machine, but I wanted to ask first. Does anyone have experience with
any of these 3 machines? How do they rate? Is it worth it to pay more for
the Schwinn or the Bowflex, or is the Weider an awesome deal? I look
forward to hearing comments/advice.

Many thanks,
Tom

I cannot comment on the pro's and con's of either machine vs another;
however, I can comment on a machine vs freeweights. My wife bought a
soloflex about ten years ago. She and I used it sporadically over the
years, and it was okay (the bench was always narrow and wobbly, but
minor point). Anyway, about three years ago I got more serious into
lifting. I quickly learned the downside of these expensive exercise
machines. You see the machine will move the way the machine moves, and
that is not always the way you move. Now the cable driven bowflexs are
more forgiving than the soloflex, however, the same problem is there.
The resistance comes from the direction of the cable pull, not the
direction of Earth. And the resistance is not consistent throughout
the range of motion (very disturbing). Some very good lifts you will
find so awkward that you likely will not bother to do them at all
(deadlift and squats come to mind quickly, two of the best lifts you
will ever do). No matter what the salesperson says, I cannot see any
but the most dedicated of a bowflex user EVER doing deadlifts and
squats with that machine. And notice how the cable cuts into the
persons arms in commercial when they are doing some exercises (it sure
as hell looks painful to me). No thanks.
That is just the general problem with machines. The more specific
problem is, they are more expensive than freeweights, take up more
room than freeweights, and are not as versatile as freeweights. Any
crazy isolation, waste-of-time exercise that you can think of doing on
these machines can be duplicated with a set of freeweights and a
powerack with lat attachment. Again, I do not care what the
salesperson says, you can get essentially the same muscle recruitment
and isolation with a set of freeweights (although after you learn more
about lifiting weights you will see that extensive isolation is
usually a very silly thing to try to achieve!) and for a lot less
money.
So, the bottom line is, in the machines vs freeweights equation,
machines come up as just not worth it. They lose in every category and
offer no advantage except sexy sales pitches and slick ad pitchmen.
Freeweights only has an extensive track record of thousands of people
getting great results (in fact I will bet you the folks in the
bowflex ad used freeweights to get the bodies they show you!).
So, having said all that. Will the machines work? Sure, if you are
currently doing nothing, doing something will work. So will walking
everyday and doing body weight exercises and those are the cheapest of
all.
If you are bound and determined to (IMHO) waste your money on the
machine rather than freeweights, then at least buy it used from the
newspaper. This is about the time of year that all those new years
resolutions begin to break down, and the paper will be full of people
selling their machines for a fraction of the new price. DO NOT PAY
retail. For gods sake the last thing we need is another pitiful piece
of too expensive exercise equipment sitting in someones rec room,
unused and taking up space. Buy a cheap set of freeweight, a simple
bench and enjoy.


Dr. Dickie
Skepticult member in good standing #394-00596-438
Poking kooks with a pointy stick
====================================
"Let be be finale of seem.
The only emperor is the emperor of ice-cream"
Wallace Stevens-1923
=====================================
  #3  
Old February 8th 04, 06:12 PM
Internet User
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Default Bowflex, Crossbow, Schwinn

Dr. Dickie wrote:
And the resistance is not consistent throughout
the range of motion (very disturbing). Some very good lifts you will
find so awkward that you likely will not bother to do them at all
(deadlift and squats come to mind quickly, two of the best lifts you
will ever do).


I owned a BowFlex for a month or two a few years back (returned it). I
can back up the problems with the resistance and to a lesser extent the
range of motion. The resistance is what killed it for me. It starts of
easy and quickly builds, which might not be working the targeted muscles
the way you want. Range of motion was no biggie, the cables allow for
more motion than a Soloflex or other "rubberband" machine. And yes...
the cables can dig into your arms which is uncomfortable, but not a deal
breaker.

That is just the general problem with machines. The more specific
problem is, they are more expensive than freeweights, take up more
room than freeweights, and are not as versatile as freeweights.


More expensive, yes. I don't think machines take up any more room. You
need quite a bit of room to exercise with free weights safely. If you
don't have a spotter, then you need some kind of rack or cage. I work
out alone at home. Purchased a set of olympic sized cast iron free
weights for roughly $200 and a cage w/ bench for approx $500. The
workout is better, almost as safe, but takes up more room than the
BowFlex. The thing I like about free weights is the feeling of
accomplishment in moving around real weight.
  #4  
Old February 9th 04, 01:11 AM
Proctologically Violated©®
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Posts: n/a
Default Bowflex, Crossbow, Schwinn

What Dr. and IU said.
Altho they emphasize free weights, for $1500 and less you can
get a very good weight/pulley based multi-gym, which generally have
everything a Booflex has, except for maybe the sliding seat, which is no big
deal. Some people pick on these machines as well, vis a vis free weights,
but IMO they are very often an excellent, even optimal, compromise.
I would take a little issue with the Dr. on muscle isolation.
For the pro, muscle isolation can be important. But for anyone else
(you'n'me, presumably), I agree, it is a non-issue. In fact, for you'n'me,
isolation detracts from overall workout efficiency--and coordination!
Dr. shoulda typed this point in bold caps: Randy bustid his ass
on free weights to get that body--oh, and a little Lasix, dehydration
dieting, etc. No way he got it from a Booflex, and Nononononoway he got it
20 min/3x/week. What a hustle.
The line-of-action in the cable is really a very important
point. Booflex sweeps it under the carpet by saying Oh, it's better cuz it
gets yer stabilizer muscles. What crap. What a poor line of action does is
disproportionately strain the ancillary muscles so's the big muscles can't
get properly worked out. Watch the commercial, you'll see it when Blondie
cain't lift the first setting. The line of action is ALL wrong.
The slur against the "momentum of weights" is absolutely bogus
and fraudulent. In fact, the LACK of momentum (more accurately, inertia)
in the Booflex (absent in ANY spring system), is, in most cases, a major
deficiency. Inertia is a *good* thing--greatly adds to the versatility of a
given move, and develops neuromuscular coordination, as well.
The quality is middling middling, some say worse on the Weider.
Already Booflex has had a recall.
Dr. Dickie is wrong--the varying resistance is not disturbing; it
is *horrible*. Not even remotely comparable to the cam action on Nautilus
machines, which do a nice job of compensating for the varying mechanical
advantages/disadvantages in the ROM. The Booflex absolutely sucks in this
dept.
Will soon go the way of the Soloflex. Unless Tony Little gets a
hold of it, and frauds it out even more.
I seen Schwinn thingy at Sports Authority. Where did this come
from????????
----------------------------
Mr. P.V.'d
formerly Droll Troll

"Tom" wrote in message
...
Hello, All,
Well, it's tax refund time, and my wife has given me permission to buy a
home gym!! I am intrigued by the bowflex, and noticed at a sporting goods
store that there is now a Schwinn Bowflex out, as well as the Weider
Crossbow. From what I've read online, it seems that the crossbow is a
decent machine, but I wanted to ask first. Does anyone have experience

with
any of these 3 machines? How do they rate? Is it worth it to pay more

for
the Schwinn or the Bowflex, or is the Weider an awesome deal? I look
forward to hearing comments/advice.

Many thanks,
Tom




  #5  
Old February 9th 04, 06:29 AM
kmf
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Bowflex, Crossbow, Schwinn

Hello, All,
Well, it's tax refund time, and my wife has given me permission to buy a
home gym!! I am intrigued by the bowflex, and noticed at a sporting goods
store that there is now a Schwinn Bowflex out, as well as the Weider
Crossbow. From what I've read online, it seems that the crossbow is a
decent machine, but I wanted to ask first. Does anyone have experience

with
any of these 3 machines? How do they rate? Is it worth it to pay more

for
the Schwinn or the Bowflex, or is the Weider an awesome deal? I look
forward to hearing comments/advice.


Don't know about the Crossbow, but we have had a Bowflex for the last
several months and can't say anything bad about it.

Lost about 20 pounds and see much more muscle definition, but I guess
anything is better than nothing some would say. It works great for the
bodyforlife program (www.bodyforlife.com), both me and my wife can work out
together and finish within the plan's alloted time frames (for upper and
lower body.

It does take up less room than conventional weights, considering that we
have a treadmill and are about to by a precor elliptical, we need to
optimize space.

Of the many people I have talked to about the Bowflex (owners or people who
have tried them) is that it seems to make the workout period shorter (just
change a couple of power rods or a pulley thingy) due to its integration.
Also, take a look at www.epinions.com for actual user feedback, not many bad
things said on that site (and it would be the one were bad things would not
be deleted).

There is a recent recall on one of their units (they send you out
replacement parts, you don't send the bowflex back), but my Expedition has
had over 13 recalls (they fix them as part of regular servicing). Anything
that has sold as much as these units have is bound to have issues
periodically.


  #6  
Old February 9th 04, 07:37 PM
KenP
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Bowflex, Crossbow, Schwinn

OK let me start by saying I do not like the "bow" resistance machines
at all.
You are much better off with a home gym with a weight stack or
freeweights. That being said the Bowflex was the best built of any of
the units I have seen or tried.

BUT HERE IS THE MOST RECENT RECALL INFO:


Reuters
Nautilus Recalls Bowflex Machines
Thursday January 29, 11:34 am ET


NEW YORK (Reuters) - A Nautilus Group Inc. (NYSE:NLS - News) unit said
on Thursday it is recalling 420,000 Bowflex fitness machines due to
defects that have caused more than 70 reported injuries, and shares
plunged more than 17 percent.
The recall comes a day after Nautilus, which also sells products under
the Schwinn and StairMaster brands, said its quarterly profit fell 59
percent due to weak sales of its exercise machines, including Bowflex.

In a statement, Nautilus Direct said there have been at least 70
reports of the machines' backboard benches breaking unexpectedly, and
at least 18 reports of the machines' "Lat Tower" rotating forward and
falling.

The Vancouver, Washington, company said it has received at least 73
reports of resulting back, neck, shoulder, teeth and head injuries,
some of which have required stitches.

The recall involves the Bowflex Power Pro XL, XTL and XTLU systems
with the "Lat Tower" attachment. The machines were sold between
January 1995 and December 2003.

The "Lat Tower," which attaches to the Bowflex bench, has pulleys and
a bar used to develop the upper back and shoulder muscles,
specifically hitting the lateral muscles underneath the armpits.

Nautilus shares were down $2.45, or 15.5 percent, at $13.38 in morning
trade on the New York Stock Exchange (News - Websites) . The stock hit
a low of $13.11 earlier in the session and was the Big Board's biggest
percentage loser.
  #7  
Old February 10th 04, 07:30 AM
Proctologically Violated©®
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Bowflex, Crossbow, Schwinn



--
"kmf" wrote in message
news:%[email protected]
Hello, All,
Well, it's tax refund time, and my wife has given me permission to buy a
home gym!! I am intrigued by the bowflex, and noticed at a sporting

goods
store that there is now a Schwinn Bowflex out, as well as the Weider
Crossbow. From what I've read online, it seems that the crossbow is a
decent machine, but I wanted to ask first. Does anyone have experience

with
any of these 3 machines? How do they rate? Is it worth it to pay more

for
the Schwinn or the Bowflex, or is the Weider an awesome deal? I look
forward to hearing comments/advice.


Don't know about the Crossbow, but we have had a Bowflex for the last
several months and can't say anything bad about it.

Lost about 20 pounds and see much more muscle definition, but I guess
anything is better than nothing some would say. It works great for the
bodyforlife program (www.bodyforlife.com), both me and my wife can work

out
together and finish within the plan's alloted time frames (for upper and
lower body.

It does take up less room than conventional weights, considering that we
have a treadmill and are about to by a precor elliptical, we need to
optimize space.

Of the many people I have talked to about the Bowflex (owners or people

who
have tried them) is that it seems to make the workout period shorter (just
change a couple of power rods or a pulley thingy) due to its integration.
Also, take a look at www.epinions.com for actual user feedback, not many

bad
things said on that site (and it would be the one were bad things would

not
be deleted).

There is a recent recall on one of their units (they send you out
replacement parts, you don't send the bowflex back), but my Expedition has
had over 13 recalls (they fix them as part of regular servicing). Anything
that has sold as much as these units have is bound to have issues
periodically.


Reading betwixt the lines, you seem to imply that your results
are a result of "Bowflex Technology". You woulda got the same results with
*any* trad'l multigym used in a similar manner, likely with better results
as these units are... better units!
As far as eopinions is concerned, that site single-handedly
changed my opinion of the American Pubic. P T Barnum's sucker observation
needs to be modified:
Not only is there a new sucker born every minute (more, now, what
with population and all), they are computer-literate suckers, who *still*
won't fess up to being suckered.
Look at the crap being reviewed on eopinions, and ask yerself,
How could these people NOT lambast this stuff? Even the bodyblade is
favorably reviewed. The bodyblade has less fitness value than the old Pet
Rock.
Every once in a while a brave soul tells it like it is (read:
Yeah, I got snuckered), but they are a teeny minority. Truly amazing.
Marketing people need to grok this phenom.
Which is not much different than listening to the syndicated
assholes Siskel & Ebert, or whomever, on movies. These people couldn't
catch a nuance with a high-powered listening device, telescope, or
microscope.
Or that 10 years after receiving a pulitzer prize, that same
novel in disguise will likely be panned.
Figgers.
----------------------------
Mr. P.V.'d
formerly Droll Troll






  #8  
Old February 10th 04, 04:16 PM
mistaroboto
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Posts: n/a
Default Bowflex, Crossbow, Schwinn

Lost about 20 pounds and see much more muscle definition, but I guess
anything is better than nothing some would say. It works great for the
bodyforlife program (www.bodyforlife.com), both me and my wife can work

out
together and finish within the plan's alloted time frames (for upper and
lower body.

It does take up less room than conventional weights, considering that we
have a treadmill and are about to by a precor elliptical, we need to
optimize space.

..

Reading betwixt the lines, you seem to imply that your results
are a result of "Bowflex Technology". You woulda got the same results

with
*any* trad'l multigym used in a similar manner, likely with better results
as these units are... better units!


You didn't have to read between the lines, I stated the fact that 'anything
is better than nothing, some would say'. Anyways, it gets ME out there in an
efficient way and has led to constructive changes that weren't achieved
prior. Having looked at multiple home gym setups and taken everything into
consideration I can say that I am very satisfied.

Bought the Precor elliptical yesterday, that was reviewed very well on
epinions as well, and the home gym is pretty much done (well, except for the
punching bag, but you seem pretty good for that :-)


  #9  
Old February 11th 04, 09:11 PM
Proctologically Violated©®
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Bowflex, Crossbow, Schwinn



--
"mistaroboto" wrote in message
news:[email protected]
Lost about 20 pounds and see much more muscle definition, but I guess
anything is better than nothing some would say. It works great for the
bodyforlife program (www.bodyforlife.com), both me and my wife can

work
out
together and finish within the plan's alloted time frames (for upper

and
lower body.

It does take up less room than conventional weights, considering that

we
have a treadmill and are about to by a precor elliptical, we need to
optimize space.

.

Reading betwixt the lines, you seem to imply that your

results
are a result of "Bowflex Technology". You woulda got the same results

with
*any* trad'l multigym used in a similar manner, likely with better

results
as these units are... better units!


You didn't have to read between the lines, I stated the fact that

'anything
is better than nothing, some would say'. Anyways, it gets ME out there in

an
efficient way and has led to constructive changes that weren't achieved
prior. Having looked at multiple home gym setups and taken everything into
consideration I can say that I am very satisfied.

Bought the Precor elliptical yesterday, that was reviewed very well on
epinions as well, and the home gym is pretty much done (well, except for

the
punching bag, but you seem pretty good for that :-)


Well, proly I should keep my mouth shut. If you simply don't
don't know enough to *not* like the Bowflex, you'll probably be better off.
But if you ever go to a commercial gym and really grok the diff,
you probably won't be able to go back to it. To a first order approx.,
resistance IS indeed resistance, regardless of the source.
It is just my own bug that when a company bald-facedly lies its
goddamm ass off, NO ONE should patronize their products. Esp. when, to a
second order approximation, spring-based products are clearly inferior. And
esp. when the price is greater and the quality less than than of trad'l
equipment.
Kinda like when I started feeding the cat table scraps-- he is
such a pain, now--won't go back to cat food.
----------------------------
Mr. P.V.'d
formerly Droll Troll




  #10  
Old February 12th 04, 02:31 AM
mistaroboto
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Posts: n/a
Default Bowflex, Crossbow, Schwinn

Well, proly I should keep my mouth shut. If you simply don't
don't know enough to *not* like the Bowflex, you'll probably be better

off.

Having worked on in a 'gym environment' during highschool (football),
university (football scholarship), and through my 20's to early 30's I can
speak from experience and usage of many types of equipment. The Bowflex
works, as with anything the effort you apply to it provides results. My
boss, a body builder during his university years and early 20's ended up
buying one as well, he loves it. Seems to work for us.

As to quality, it works great, no issues in the almost year of ownership.
Still looks, works, and feels like new.

We are all entitled to our opinions, you have yours, I have mine. What works
for me may not work for you.



 




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