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  #11  
Old December 4th 04, 10:37 PM
Dan Stumpus
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Doug Freese wrote:

If you have a small 5k race then why fret over the computer stuff race
day? I think numbered index cards for a small race are ideal. By
shuffling the cards in age group piles you can do the results
immediately. Yes, you need to remind people to fill in name, gender
and age and return the card. If they don't return the card you put
unknown in the results From a scoring perspective all you need to do
is write the times down as people finish. You can then do the
computer stuff when you feel like it.


I like that. Also, those tear-off ID sections of the race numbers can be
simply filled out and stuck on a board, and the timing tape put next to it
for people to see their times. That's what I did when I ran the finish line
for 400-entrant 10k some years ago. Many of the ultras I do (which are 200
folks at the most) use a similar low-tech solution.


  #12  
Old December 5th 04, 05:42 AM
Doug Freese
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"Dan Stumpus" wrote in message
nk.net...
Doug Freese wrote:

If you have a small 5k race then why fret over the computer stuff
race
day? I think numbered index cards for a small race are ideal. By
shuffling the cards in age group piles you can do the results
immediately. Yes, you need to remind people to fill in name, gender
and age and return the card. If they don't return the card you put
unknown in the results From a scoring perspective all you need to do
is write the times down as people finish. You can then do the
computer stuff when you feel like it.


I like that. Also, those tear-off ID sections of the race numbers can
be
simply filled out and stuck on a board, and the timing tape put next
to it
for people to see their times.


Yes and no. If it's a hot or rainy day they get soaked and it's nearly
impossible to write on and will only stick on a board with two sided
tape. Been there, done that.

-DF


  #13  
Old December 5th 04, 05:19 PM
Kenneth Raich
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On 3 Dec 2004 04:38:40 -0800, "ClydeEvans" wrote:
(some info snipped)
We do data entry/reporting for pre-race registration and official
results posting, but I've not seen anything to convince me that we can
get walk-up information into a system in time to correctly calculate
winners for the awards ceremony. I'm not ready to eliminate race-day
registration, so I'm stuck.

If anyone has seen this process automated, I'd like to know. If not,
I'd like to hear suggestions on how to drive accurate registration info
into the results process.

Hello Clyde,
You can automate race-day entry...but it's a matter of scale.

First, you need to separate the pre-registered "packet pickup" from "race-day
entry" areas. You don't want the same volunteers doing both functions because
the lines can get very long and delay the data entry of race-day folks. If you
only have around 100 race-day entries, you can get by with two or three
volunteers handling lines of runners and one person performing data entry. The
data entry person enters only minimal information: the runner's name, gender,
age, and event (if there is more than one event). The computer automatically
assigns bib numbers and prints a label for each runner (with the bib number
bar-coded). We use a small Dymo label printer which prints these labels
one-at-a-time. Another volunteer sitting next to the data entry person removes
each label from the label printer, affixes it to the appropriate bib number,
hands it to the runner, and asks the runner to "make sure everything is proper".

Therefore, the organization of the "Race-day registration" table is as follows:
- 2-3 people processing entry forms, taking payment/giving change,
handing out T-shirts, and directing runners to the end of the
table to pick up their bibs.
- 1 person standing behind the above people to collect each entry form and
carry it to the data entry person.
- 1 data entry volunteer who enters minimal information into the database
from each entry form.
- 1 volunteer who affixes a label to each bib's tear-off tag and hands it
to the runner.

The person performing data entry is also the person who calculates the race
results. Between the time when data entry is complete and the time when the
first spindle is delivered. For a long race (like a half-marathon), the data
entry person has time to go back through the entry forms and complete the entry
of information (address, phone number, etc.). Our newspaper likes to print
results that include City and State so a "results" file can be sent to the
newspaper immediately after results are complete. For a short race (like a 5K),
it may not be possible to enter all the information before results must be
started...so the remainder of the entry form information is entered after
results have been completed.

The above system can be scaled-up the meet any volume of race-day entrants. If
there are over 100 race-day entrants, I recommend have more than one data entry
person. Make sure your database can handle multiple logins and you have the
computers networked. We use MSDE (Microsoft's Desktop Engine) for the database
because it can be distributed freely. The database can also be
attached/deattached to Microsoft's SQL Server, if necessary.

Of course, there is a practical limit to the scaling limit. I don't believe I'd
want to organize something like the above for several hundred race-day entries.
So, obviously race-day registration must be eliminated when a race reaches a
certain size. However, the above system has allowed us to continue providing
race-day registration as an option for the runners.

I still can't understand why so many people are willing to pay $30 (or so) to
register on race-day when it costs around $10 less to register a few days
earlier. However, this means the race does take in a lot of money by supporting
race day registration.

I hope I've given some useable information by describing the way our club
handles race-day entries,

Ken
--
Kenneth Raich, Webmaster
Southern Colorado Runners Club
www.socorunners.org
  #14  
Old December 5th 04, 07:23 PM
bj
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"Kenneth Raich" wrote in message
...

I still can't understand why so many people are willing to pay $30 (or so)
to register on race-day when it costs around $10 less to register a few
days earlier.


Sometimes it's a matter of which way you want to gamble -- pre-register &
know you're paying the $20 but you're not sure you'll be able to come to the
even, or delay & know you'll pay extra if you can make it. I've done both.

I've pre-reg for races that close early, knowing that I might not be able to
run (another year, I didn't enter, & ended up injured anyway, so I saved $
that time). I've made late decisions about whether or not to run, or even to
do a different event. At least once I changed my mind because of the
atrocious driving conditions that morning, & didn't go to a race that I
hadn't pre-entered -- & I wouldn't have gone even if I'd already paid.

I've race-day-entered when I didn't know before that I would be able to run
at all. And convinced a friend to do the same, & he hadn't even been doing
any training. I've skipped races I'd entered when I got sick a few days
before (& walking to the kitchen was a challenge) -- once I had to take a
month off & get back into things slowly, no matter what my "plans" had been.

And sometimes I find that I can do another race on Sunday after all, feeling
better than expected after Saturday -- but I don't plan on it happening that
way!

I'm sure there are lots of reasons, as varied as the population that
participates.
bj



  #15  
Old December 5th 04, 07:42 PM
Kenneth Raich
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On Sun, 05 Dec 2004 18:23:10 GMT, "bj" wrote:
"Kenneth Raich" wrote in message
.. .

I still can't understand why so many people are willing to pay $30 (or so)
to register on race-day when it costs around $10 less to register a few
days earlier.

Sometimes it's a matter of which way you want to gamble -- pre-register &
know you're paying the $20 but you're not sure you'll be able to come to the
even, or delay & know you'll pay extra if you can make it. I've done both.

I've pre-reg for races that close early, knowing that I might not be able to
run (another year, I didn't enter, & ended up injured anyway, so I saved $
that time). I've made late decisions about whether or not to run, or even to
do a different event. At least once I changed my mind because of the
atrocious driving conditions that morning, & didn't go to a race that I
hadn't pre-entered -- & I wouldn't have gone even if I'd already paid.

I've race-day-entered when I didn't know before that I would be able to run
at all. And convinced a friend to do the same, & he hadn't even been doing
any training. I've skipped races I'd entered when I got sick a few days
before (& walking to the kitchen was a challenge) -- once I had to take a
month off & get back into things slowly, no matter what my "plans" had been.

And sometimes I find that I can do another race on Sunday after all, feeling
better than expected after Saturday -- but I don't plan on it happening that
way!

I'm sure there are lots of reasons, as varied as the population that
participates.


Hi BJ,
Thanks for the insights.

It does show that races offering race-day registration perform a service to
those in the running community that you describe. It is a shame that in some
cases race-day registration has become impractical. The sentiment in our club is
to provide this service as long as we can make it work.

It is evident that a race NOT offering race-day registration will lose some
entrants. There is probably no way to tell how many "race-day" runners will
choose to pre-register when race-day registration is not provided.

Ken
--
Kenneth Raich, Webmaster
Southern Colorado Runners Club
www.socorunners.org
  #16  
Old December 6th 04, 05:11 AM
Sam
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"Kenneth Raich" wrote in message
...

I still can't understand why so many people are willing to pay $30 (or so)
to
register on race-day when it costs around $10 less to register a few days
earlier. However, this means the race does take in a lot of money by
supporting
race day registration.

I hope I've given some useable information by describing the way our club
handles race-day entries,

Ken
--
Kenneth Raich, Webmaster
Southern Colorado Runners Club
www.socorunners.org


To answer the question:

1) Some people are on call and cannot plan as far ahead
2) Some people find out about a race just before
3) Some find that they are unexpectedly in town
4) Some wait to see what the weather is going to be like (especially in So
Colorado or elsewhere on the Front Range)


I am sure there are lots of other reasons.


  #17  
Old December 6th 04, 11:42 AM
FabulustRunner
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I still can't understand why so many people are willing to pay $30 (or so)
to
register on race-day when it costs around $10 less to register a few days
earlier.


For me the answer would be "weather". I've done all the mean, nasty, cold and
wet races I ever plan on doing in this lifetime, so if the weathers bad
screwit, I'm staying home.
  #18  
Old December 6th 04, 12:28 PM
Doug Freese
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"Sam" wrote in message
nk.net...

"Kenneth Raich" wrote in message
...

I still can't understand why so many people are willing to pay $30
(or so) to
register on race-day when it costs around $10 less to register a few
days
earlier.


Many valid reasons and Sam raised a few below.

However, this means the race does take in a lot of money by
supporting
race day registration.


They don't kick the price race day to make extra money but more to
encourage most people to pre-register for shirt, food, drink planning.
Or he corallary, if you kept the price the same regardless of when you
signed up most will wait until the day of. This would make any planning
impossible.

To answer the question:

1) Some people are on call and cannot plan as far ahead
2) Some people find out about a race just before
3) Some find that they are unexpectedly in town
4) Some wait to see what the weather is going to be like (especially
in So Colorado or elsewhere on the Front Range)


I am sure there are lots of other reasons.



 




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