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meet report...still learning



 
 
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  #11  
Old August 24th 03, 02:00 PM
whit
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default meet report...still learning


"Aaron" hunt354 at hotmail dot com wrote in message
...

"whit" wrote in message
...

"Aaron" hunt354 at hotmail dot com wrote in message
...

"John M. Williams" wrote in

message
...
"whit" wrote:

your deadlift is way disproportional to your bench.

you didn't do a 450 deadlift at 221 lbs bodyweight, but you

"smoked"
a
319
bp, albeit with a shirt

Very unlike you, Whit. Standard lower-body powerlifter thinking. I
realize that powerlifting scoring favors that. But it ignores that
some people have better upper body strength, while others have

better
lower body strength.

Look at the record lifts in most powerlifting associations. The

best
totals, deadlift, and squat are frequently held by the same person,
but that person almost never has the best bench press.

not nessecarily upper or lower body strength. A good deadlifter will

have
long arms and short legs (which provides an advantage to squat as

well).
A
bencher will have short arms.
THe IPF 52kg record holder (cant remember his name) has squatted 300,
benched 177.5 but struggles getting 140kg deadlift cos hes a dwarf

and
the
body structure doesnt allow a decent lift.
Coan is a deadlifter and a squatter, but his bench is comparably lower

(but
not tiny)
--
Aaron


i have short arms, long legs, and am still a better deadlifter than

bencher


whit


you need to bench more then

I have short arms and short legs, and my deadlift sucks. My friend has

long
arms and legs, and short torso and can deadlift awsomely, compared to a
sucky bench

what length is your torso (brachiomorphic.dicholiomorphic -sp?)


--
Aaron


relatively short torso. i haven't done a max bench in a while, but i
estimate a raw one at about 310.

havent' done a max deadlift in a while, but i did 365 for 18 reps recently,
and that was fun.

probably a max dead about 520 or so.

whit














  #12  
Old August 24th 03, 04:03 PM
John M. Williams
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default meet report...still learning

"whit" wrote:
"John M. Williams" wrote:
"whit" wrote:
"John M. Williams" wrote:
"whit" wrote:

your deadlift is way disproportional to your bench.

you didn't do a 450 deadlift at 221 lbs bodyweight, but you "smoked" a
319 bp, albeit with a shirt

Very unlike you, Whit. Standard lower-body powerlifter thinking. I
realize that powerlifting scoring favors that. But it ignores that
some people have better upper body strength, while others have better
lower body strength.


i am aware of that. i didn't say it was necessarily training related.

i said it was disproportional. it IS disproportional, in relation to a
reasonable group of comparison - powerlifters, since they compete in
bench and dead (and squat)

it's not disproportional for many, but it's disproportional vis a visw
powerlifting, or push-pull meets.


No. If you read what I said below ...

Look at the record lifts in most powerlifting associations. The best
totals, deadlift, and squat are frequently held by the same person,
but that person almost never has the best bench press.


... you would find that the best bench-pressers have a similar
distribution of lifts. They may not have the best totals, but as I
said before, powerlifting scoring favors lower body strength.


ok. i see what you mean.

do you not think that MOST people can deadlift significantly more, in
relation to their bench, than this guy. iow, he is disproportional.

most people ARE much stronger in their lower as compared to upper body,
after all


Stronger, yes, but with different distributions. Compare the lifts
from our respective first meets. You had a deadlift that was a solid
85 pounds better than mine. I had a better bench press. And that was
despite your short arms and my long arms, which, according to Aaron,
should yield opposite results.

Bottom line: Some people have better upper-body strength, while
others have better lower body strength. As I said, check the record
lifts in several PL associations, and you'll see what I mean.
  #13  
Old August 24th 03, 04:18 PM
Keith Hobman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default meet report...still learning

In article , John M. Williams
wrote:

"whit" wrote:
"John M. Williams" wrote:
"whit" wrote:
"John M. Williams" wrote:
"whit" wrote:

your deadlift is way disproportional to your bench.

you didn't do a 450 deadlift at 221 lbs bodyweight, but you "smoked" a
319 bp, albeit with a shirt

Very unlike you, Whit. Standard lower-body powerlifter thinking. I
realize that powerlifting scoring favors that. But it ignores that
some people have better upper body strength, while others have better
lower body strength.


i am aware of that. i didn't say it was necessarily training related.

i said it was disproportional. it IS disproportional, in relation to a
reasonable group of comparison - powerlifters, since they compete in
bench and dead (and squat)

it's not disproportional for many, but it's disproportional vis a visw
powerlifting, or push-pull meets.

No. If you read what I said below ...

Look at the record lifts in most powerlifting associations. The best
totals, deadlift, and squat are frequently held by the same person,
but that person almost never has the best bench press.

... you would find that the best bench-pressers have a similar
distribution of lifts. They may not have the best totals, but as I
said before, powerlifting scoring favors lower body strength.


ok. i see what you mean.

do you not think that MOST people can deadlift significantly more, in
relation to their bench, than this guy. iow, he is disproportional.

most people ARE much stronger in their lower as compared to upper body,
after all


Stronger, yes, but with different distributions. Compare the lifts
from our respective first meets. You had a deadlift that was a solid
85 pounds better than mine. I had a better bench press. And that was
despite your short arms and my long arms, which, according to Aaron,
should yield opposite results.

Bottom line: Some people have better upper-body strength, while
others have better lower body strength. As I said, check the record
lifts in several PL associations, and you'll see what I mean.


Insertions can also be crucial in the bench press - more so than the
deadlift. So its also possible to be have a good bench press without
extraordinary upper body strength.

Of course the converse (ie lower body strength) could be said of leverages
and the deadlift. Rickey Dale Crain is one lifter who argues for technique
- he says he was oftne not the strongest lifter, but he was always the
best prepared lifter. And it is tough to argue with his success.

--
Keith Hobman

The email address above is a spam sink - no longer monitored
  #14  
Old August 24th 03, 04:43 PM
John M. Williams
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default meet report...still learning

(Keith Hobman) wrote:
John M. Williams wrote:
"whit" wrote:
"John M. Williams" wrote:
"whit" wrote:
"John M. Williams" wrote:
"whit" wrote:

your deadlift is way disproportional to your bench.

you didn't do a 450 deadlift at 221 lbs bodyweight, but you "smoked" a
319 bp, albeit with a shirt

Very unlike you, Whit. Standard lower-body powerlifter thinking. I
realize that powerlifting scoring favors that. But it ignores that
some people have better upper body strength, while others have better
lower body strength.


i am aware of that. i didn't say it was necessarily training related.

i said it was disproportional. it IS disproportional, in relation to a
reasonable group of comparison - powerlifters, since they compete in
bench and dead (and squat)

it's not disproportional for many, but it's disproportional vis a visw
powerlifting, or push-pull meets.

No. If you read what I said below ...

Look at the record lifts in most powerlifting associations. The best
totals, deadlift, and squat are frequently held by the same person,
but that person almost never has the best bench press.

... you would find that the best bench-pressers have a similar
distribution of lifts. They may not have the best totals, but as I
said before, powerlifting scoring favors lower body strength.


ok. i see what you mean.

do you not think that MOST people can deadlift significantly more, in
relation to their bench, than this guy. iow, he is disproportional.

most people ARE much stronger in their lower as compared to upper body,
after all


Stronger, yes, but with different distributions. Compare the lifts
from our respective first meets. You had a deadlift that was a solid
85 pounds better than mine. I had a better bench press. And that was
despite your short arms and my long arms, which, according to Aaron,
should yield opposite results.

Bottom line: Some people have better upper-body strength, while
others have better lower body strength. As I said, check the record
lifts in several PL associations, and you'll see what I mean.


Insertions can also be crucial in the bench press - more so than the
deadlift. So its also possible to be have a good bench press without
extraordinary upper body strength.


"Strength" is a highly intangible concept, involving not only muscle
fiber content, but also neuromuscular adaptation (firing rates,
recruitment, etc.), tolerance for fatigue, mental state, and
knowledge/application of technique. The only reasonable way to
objectively measure it is outcome: how much one can lift in a specific
movement. You can tweak the definition to favor whatever you want,
but the only way to objectively combine all the factors is to say that
whoever lifts the most is the strongest.
  #15  
Old August 24th 03, 04:55 PM
Hoff
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default meet report...still learning

"John M. Williams" wrote in message
...
"whit" wrote:
"John M. Williams" wrote:
"whit" wrote:
"John M. Williams" wrote:
"whit" wrote:

your deadlift is way disproportional to your bench.

you didn't do a 450 deadlift at 221 lbs bodyweight, but you

"smoked" a
319 bp, albeit with a shirt

Very unlike you, Whit. Standard lower-body powerlifter thinking. I
realize that powerlifting scoring favors that. But it ignores that
some people have better upper body strength, while others have

better
lower body strength.


i am aware of that. i didn't say it was necessarily training related.

i said it was disproportional. it IS disproportional, in relation to

a
reasonable group of comparison - powerlifters, since they compete in
bench and dead (and squat)

it's not disproportional for many, but it's disproportional vis a visw
powerlifting, or push-pull meets.

No. If you read what I said below ...

Look at the record lifts in most powerlifting associations. The

best
totals, deadlift, and squat are frequently held by the same person,
but that person almost never has the best bench press.

... you would find that the best bench-pressers have a similar
distribution of lifts. They may not have the best totals, but as I
said before, powerlifting scoring favors lower body strength.


ok. i see what you mean.

do you not think that MOST people can deadlift significantly more, in
relation to their bench, than this guy. iow, he is disproportional.

most people ARE much stronger in their lower as compared to upper body,
after all


Stronger, yes, but with different distributions. Compare the lifts
from our respective first meets. You had a deadlift that was a solid
85 pounds better than mine. I had a better bench press. And that was
despite your short arms and my long arms, which, according to Aaron,
should yield opposite results.


And just for the record (cuz I don't really remember), did Whit use a shirt
to bench?

Hoff


  #16  
Old August 24th 03, 07:45 PM
Keith Hobman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default meet report...still learning

In article , John M. Williams
wrote:

(Keith Hobman) wrote:
John M. Williams wrote:
"whit" wrote:
"John M. Williams" wrote:
"whit" wrote:
"John M. Williams" wrote:
"whit" wrote:

your deadlift is way disproportional to your bench.

you didn't do a 450 deadlift at 221 lbs bodyweight, but you

"smoked" a
319 bp, albeit with a shirt

Very unlike you, Whit. Standard lower-body powerlifter thinking. I
realize that powerlifting scoring favors that. But it ignores that
some people have better upper body strength, while others have better
lower body strength.


i am aware of that. i didn't say it was necessarily training related.

i said it was disproportional. it IS disproportional, in relation to a
reasonable group of comparison - powerlifters, since they compete in
bench and dead (and squat)

it's not disproportional for many, but it's disproportional vis a visw
powerlifting, or push-pull meets.

No. If you read what I said below ...

Look at the record lifts in most powerlifting associations. The best
totals, deadlift, and squat are frequently held by the same person,
but that person almost never has the best bench press.

... you would find that the best bench-pressers have a similar
distribution of lifts. They may not have the best totals, but as I
said before, powerlifting scoring favors lower body strength.


ok. i see what you mean.

do you not think that MOST people can deadlift significantly more, in
relation to their bench, than this guy. iow, he is disproportional.

most people ARE much stronger in their lower as compared to upper body,
after all

Stronger, yes, but with different distributions. Compare the lifts
from our respective first meets. You had a deadlift that was a solid
85 pounds better than mine. I had a better bench press. And that was
despite your short arms and my long arms, which, according to Aaron,
should yield opposite results.

Bottom line: Some people have better upper-body strength, while
others have better lower body strength. As I said, check the record
lifts in several PL associations, and you'll see what I mean.


Insertions can also be crucial in the bench press - more so than the
deadlift. So its also possible to be have a good bench press without
extraordinary upper body strength.


"Strength" is a highly intangible concept, involving not only muscle
fiber content, but also neuromuscular adaptation (firing rates,
recruitment, etc.), tolerance for fatigue, mental state, and
knowledge/application of technique. The only reasonable way to
objectively measure it is outcome: how much one can lift in a specific
movement. You can tweak the definition to favor whatever you want,
but the only way to objectively combine all the factors is to say that
whoever lifts the most is the strongest.


You can't say the person who has the biggest bench press has the strongest
upper body tho - since the bench is not the sole or even necessarily the
best indicator of upper body strength.

All the biggest bench press indicates is the biggest bench press. Nothing
more or less. Ditto for squat and deadlift and total. And this applies to
other sports as well. For many bench technicians who use the arch they
have very little need of overall upper body strength - just triceps at
lockout. They have huge benches with average upper body strength.

I've seen guys with huge benches who can't do one pull-up - which is an
indicator of upper body strength as well. The strict press indicates upper
body strength. There are a lot of indicators and the bench press is only
one of them. So I say it again - it is possible to have a good bench press
without extraordinary upper body strength.

--
Keith Hobman

The email address above is a spam sink - no longer monitored
  #17  
Old August 24th 03, 10:27 PM
Will
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default meet report...still learning

In article ,
Jeff Finlayson wrote:

Will wrote:

Well, I continue to learn as I start to pursue powerlifting. Did a USPF
push-pull meet in Napa, CA today.

First off, I am crappy at weight management. I get paranoid and overdo
the weight cutting measures the week before a meet...although I think
the scale I rely on at home may be weighing a little heavy as well.
Whatever the exact reasons, I competed in the 220 lb class weighing in
at...

211. (At a hair over 6 feet tall)


When did you weigh in; meet day or day before?


Day before. Was probably about 216 during the meet.

Yikes! I was in the mid 220s at the start of the month. That shook me
up a bit. And while it's no excuse, my coach bailed on me at the last
minute.

Despite the weight loss I didn't feel too bad but my bench shirt felt
really loose. My warmup with 275 touched easily, I'm used to needing at
least 315 to be sure to touch.


Seems like losing a few pounds (mostly water??) wouldn't make that much
difference. Wash and dry the shirt before the meet.


Actually, I was close to 230 when I bought the shirt, so it was more
than a few pounds.

Opened at 319...smoked it. Figured I'd be good for 353. Figured wrong.
First time I'm told I brought it down too high on my chest. Got it
halfway up and stalled out. Third attempt hit where it should but
stalled out again, and I probably cut the pause short anyway. Crap.
I've done a solid 350 in the gym, but I weighed a lot more than 211 at
the time. My bench shirt didn't leave a single mark on my body, a sure
sign it's too loose now.


Slowing your descent a little may help you touch where you want more
consistently. If that was a one time thing then nevermind.


Thanks for the tip.

At least I hit my goal of 1.5x bodyweight at a meet...but this is not
how I wanted to do it.

Similar story for the deadlift. With no coach and feeling so
underweight I decided to stick with my play it safe, raw attempt
strategy. Opened with 408 and got it ok. Next was 424, double
bodyweight. Got it, but it was way harder than it should have been. I
got it moving and just refused to stop despite fighting it for what felt
like an eternity...probably 6 seconds or so. Got a lot of support from
the crowd. It really says something about the comraderie of
powerlifting that I got a ton of applause and personal congratulations
for busting my butt to complete what is quite frankly a very
unimpressive lift. Just for the hell of it I asked for 452 for my third
and stuffed myself into my Metal Deadlifter as fast as I could. Got the
bar to my knees and tried my damnedest not to give up on it as I fought
the straps until the fingers on my right hand peeled open. I think I
need some custom work to get a deadlift suit that works for me, a 54
Metal is way too loose on my hips and thighs but the straps on the 52
kill me.


-- Fine job with 424 lb!


Thanks.

Get the straps on the 52 loosened. Or get the straps tightened on the 54.


No, the straps on the 54 are fine, it's the leg holes and diameter
around the hips that are too big. I'm not sure what's easier, getting
them tightened or getting the straps on the 52 loosened.

So, mixed feelings at the end of the day. Once again I seem to have
left my best lifts in the gym, but at least I'm improving. I need to be
a lot less stupid about weight management and figure out how to peak for
meets rather than test days in the gym. I am starting to think the
instensity during the last two weeks of the peaking phase in Sheiko is
just too low, at least for me. It feels strange going into a meet not
having lifted anything really heavy for two weeks, especially
considering i do better on test days in the middle of normal training
weeks.


Make some adjustments or try another routine.

And next meet I'm lifting at whatever I weigh fully fed, even if it
means lifting in the 242's at 220.7.


Try it and you might end up at 220 anyway.

Rest up. Get back at it in a few days.


Will do. Thinking about Wade Hanna's conjugate 3x3...with a little more
speed I expect big things in my bench, I can get a lot of weight started
off the chest, it's keeping it going to lockout that's the problem. I
think this is part of why I don't get much out of a shirt.
  #18  
Old August 25th 03, 12:50 AM
Aaron
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default meet report...still learning


"John M. Williams" wrote in message
...
"whit" wrote:
"John M. Williams" wrote:
"whit" wrote:
"John M. Williams" wrote:
"whit" wrote:

your deadlift is way disproportional to your bench.

you didn't do a 450 deadlift at 221 lbs bodyweight, but you

"smoked" a
319 bp, albeit with a shirt

Very unlike you, Whit. Standard lower-body powerlifter thinking. I
realize that powerlifting scoring favors that. But it ignores that
some people have better upper body strength, while others have

better
lower body strength.


i am aware of that. i didn't say it was necessarily training related.

i said it was disproportional. it IS disproportional, in relation to

a
reasonable group of comparison - powerlifters, since they compete in
bench and dead (and squat)

it's not disproportional for many, but it's disproportional vis a visw
powerlifting, or push-pull meets.

No. If you read what I said below ...

Look at the record lifts in most powerlifting associations. The

best
totals, deadlift, and squat are frequently held by the same person,
but that person almost never has the best bench press.

... you would find that the best bench-pressers have a similar
distribution of lifts. They may not have the best totals, but as I
said before, powerlifting scoring favors lower body strength.


ok. i see what you mean.

do you not think that MOST people can deadlift significantly more, in
relation to their bench, than this guy. iow, he is disproportional.

most people ARE much stronger in their lower as compared to upper body,
after all


Stronger, yes, but with different distributions. Compare the lifts
from our respective first meets. You had a deadlift that was a solid
85 pounds better than mine. I had a better bench press. And that was
despite your short arms and my long arms, which, according to Aaron,
should yield opposite results.


not exactly a controlled experiment. Ed Coan may have longer arms than me,
but he can bench more....

Bottom line: Some people have better upper-body strength, while
others have better lower body strength. As I said, check the record
lifts in several PL associations, and you'll see what I mean.



  #19  
Old August 25th 03, 12:59 AM
John M. Williams
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default meet report...still learning

(Keith Hobman) wrote:
John M. Williams wrote:
(Keith Hobman) wrote:
John M. Williams wrote:
"whit" wrote:
"John M. Williams" wrote:
"whit" wrote:
"John M. Williams" wrote:
"whit" wrote:

your deadlift is way disproportional to your bench.

you didn't do a 450 deadlift at 221 lbs bodyweight, but you
"smoked" a 319 bp, albeit with a shirt

Very unlike you, Whit. Standard lower-body powerlifter thinking. I
realize that powerlifting scoring favors that. But it ignores that
some people have better upper body strength, while others have better
lower body strength.


i am aware of that. i didn't say it was necessarily training related.

i said it was disproportional. it IS disproportional, in relation to a
reasonable group of comparison - powerlifters, since they compete in
bench and dead (and squat)

it's not disproportional for many, but it's disproportional vis a visw
powerlifting, or push-pull meets.

No. If you read what I said below ...

Look at the record lifts in most powerlifting associations. The best
totals, deadlift, and squat are frequently held by the same person,
but that person almost never has the best bench press.

... you would find that the best bench-pressers have a similar
distribution of lifts. They may not have the best totals, but as I
said before, powerlifting scoring favors lower body strength.


ok. i see what you mean.

do you not think that MOST people can deadlift significantly more, in
relation to their bench, than this guy. iow, he is disproportional.

most people ARE much stronger in their lower as compared to upper body,
after all

Stronger, yes, but with different distributions. Compare the lifts
from our respective first meets. You had a deadlift that was a solid
85 pounds better than mine. I had a better bench press. And that was
despite your short arms and my long arms, which, according to Aaron,
should yield opposite results.

Bottom line: Some people have better upper-body strength, while
others have better lower body strength. As I said, check the record
lifts in several PL associations, and you'll see what I mean.

Insertions can also be crucial in the bench press - more so than the
deadlift. So its also possible to be have a good bench press without
extraordinary upper body strength.


"Strength" is a highly intangible concept, involving not only muscle
fiber content, but also neuromuscular adaptation (firing rates,
recruitment, etc.), tolerance for fatigue, mental state, and
knowledge/application of technique. The only reasonable way to
objectively measure it is outcome: how much one can lift in a specific
movement. You can tweak the definition to favor whatever you want,
but the only way to objectively combine all the factors is to say that
whoever lifts the most is the strongest.


You can't say the person who has the biggest bench press has the strongest
upper body tho - since the bench is not the sole or even necessarily the
best indicator of upper body strength.

All the biggest bench press indicates is the biggest bench press. Nothing
more or less. Ditto for squat and deadlift and total. And this applies to
other sports as well. For many bench technicians who use the arch they
have very little need of overall upper body strength - just triceps at
lockout. They have huge benches with average upper body strength.

I've seen guys with huge benches who can't do one pull-up - which is an
indicator of upper body strength as well. The strict press indicates upper
body strength. There are a lot of indicators and the bench press is only
one of them. So I say it again - it is possible to have a good bench press
without extraordinary upper body strength.


And a lot of big squatters have comparatively skinny calves, so they
may not have *overall* better lower body strength.

But you know what I mean, and your observations don't effectively
change what I'm saying. You know the records; you've seen the
lifters; and you know that there tends to be a division, even amongst
those in powersports. It's also one of the reasons that most meets
have separate bench press competitions. Unweighted scoring favors
lower body lifts, and the best bench-pressers don't turn in the best
totals.
  #20  
Old August 25th 03, 02:07 AM
Keith Hobman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default meet report...still learning

In article , John M. Williams
wrote:

(Keith Hobman) wrote:
John M. Williams wrote:
(Keith Hobman) wrote:
John M. Williams wrote:
"whit" wrote:
"John M. Williams" wrote:
"whit" wrote:
"John M. Williams" wrote:
"whit" wrote:

your deadlift is way disproportional to your bench.

you didn't do a 450 deadlift at 221 lbs bodyweight, but you
"smoked" a 319 bp, albeit with a shirt

Very unlike you, Whit. Standard lower-body powerlifter

thinking. I
realize that powerlifting scoring favors that. But it

ignores that
some people have better upper body strength, while others

have better
lower body strength.


i am aware of that. i didn't say it was necessarily training

related.

i said it was disproportional. it IS disproportional, in

relation to a
reasonable group of comparison - powerlifters, since they compete in
bench and dead (and squat)

it's not disproportional for many, but it's disproportional

vis a visw
powerlifting, or push-pull meets.

No. If you read what I said below ...

Look at the record lifts in most powerlifting associations.

The best
totals, deadlift, and squat are frequently held by the same

person,
but that person almost never has the best bench press.

... you would find that the best bench-pressers have a similar
distribution of lifts. They may not have the best totals, but as I
said before, powerlifting scoring favors lower body strength.


ok. i see what you mean.

do you not think that MOST people can deadlift significantly more, in
relation to their bench, than this guy. iow, he is disproportional.

most people ARE much stronger in their lower as compared to upper body,
after all

Stronger, yes, but with different distributions. Compare the lifts
from our respective first meets. You had a deadlift that was a solid
85 pounds better than mine. I had a better bench press. And that was
despite your short arms and my long arms, which, according to Aaron,
should yield opposite results.

Bottom line: Some people have better upper-body strength, while
others have better lower body strength. As I said, check the record
lifts in several PL associations, and you'll see what I mean.

Insertions can also be crucial in the bench press - more so than the
deadlift. So its also possible to be have a good bench press without
extraordinary upper body strength.

"Strength" is a highly intangible concept, involving not only muscle
fiber content, but also neuromuscular adaptation (firing rates,
recruitment, etc.), tolerance for fatigue, mental state, and
knowledge/application of technique. The only reasonable way to
objectively measure it is outcome: how much one can lift in a specific
movement. You can tweak the definition to favor whatever you want,
but the only way to objectively combine all the factors is to say that
whoever lifts the most is the strongest.


You can't say the person who has the biggest bench press has the strongest
upper body tho - since the bench is not the sole or even necessarily the
best indicator of upper body strength.

All the biggest bench press indicates is the biggest bench press. Nothing
more or less. Ditto for squat and deadlift and total. And this applies to
other sports as well. For many bench technicians who use the arch they
have very little need of overall upper body strength - just triceps at
lockout. They have huge benches with average upper body strength.

I've seen guys with huge benches who can't do one pull-up - which is an
indicator of upper body strength as well. The strict press indicates upper
body strength. There are a lot of indicators and the bench press is only
one of them. So I say it again - it is possible to have a good bench press
without extraordinary upper body strength.


And a lot of big squatters have comparatively skinny calves, so they
may not have *overall* better lower body strength.

But you know what I mean, and your observations don't effectively
change what I'm saying. You know the records; you've seen the
lifters; and you know that there tends to be a division, even amongst
those in powersports. It's also one of the reasons that most meets
have separate bench press competitions. Unweighted scoring favors
lower body lifts, and the best bench-pressers don't turn in the best
totals.


No question. 2 lifts to 1 and the total is weighted (Wilkes), not the
individual lifts.

--
Keith Hobman

The email address above is a spam sink - no longer monitored
 




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