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Rough formula for walk 'difficulty'



 
 
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  #1  
Old October 12th 15, 08:53 PM posted to uk.rec.walking
Terry Pinnell[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 15
Default Rough formula for walk 'difficulty'

I'm planning next summer's walk with my wife of the SW Coastal path,
from Westward Ho! to Trevenoe. I'm in the course of making estimates
of mileage and gross ascent and descent (ft), both based on my fairly
careful plotting of the path and using Google Earth's elevation
profile. Average mileage will be relatively short at about 9.0 as we
expect to set off daily at around 10:00 and arrive at the next B&B by
about 16:00, with plenty of stops en route.

I'd like to come up with some sort of 'difficulty' rating, so that I
can then even out the days before planning accommodation. So I'd be
interested in opinions on a realistic formula to use please.

Also, does anyone have actual GPS data for this section that they can
share please? The few GPX and KML files I've found so far are too
rough for my planning, particularly elevation. Based on the previous
two sections we've walked (Exmouth to Poole Harbour) and Minehead to
Westward Ho!, gross ascent is the most significant factor, so I need
to get that estimated fairly accurately.

--
Terry, East Grinstead, UK
  #2  
Old October 13th 15, 09:44 AM posted to uk.rec.walking
Allan[_3_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 86
Default Rough formula for walk 'difficulty'

On 12/10/2015 20:53, Terry Pinnell wrote:
I'm planning next summer's walk with my wife of the SW Coastal path,
from Westward Ho! to Trevenoe. I'm in the course of making estimates
of mileage and gross ascent and descent (ft), both based on my fairly
careful plotting of the path and using Google Earth's elevation
profile. Average mileage will be relatively short at about 9.0 as we
expect to set off daily at around 10:00 and arrive at the next B&B by
about 16:00, with plenty of stops en route.

I'd like to come up with some sort of 'difficulty' rating, so that I
can then even out the days before planning accommodation. So I'd be
interested in opinions on a realistic formula to use please.

Also, does anyone have actual GPS data for this section that they can
share please? The few GPX and KML files I've found so far are too
rough for my planning, particularly elevation. Based on the previous
two sections we've walked (Exmouth to Poole Harbour) and Minehead to
Westward Ho!, gross ascent is the most significant factor, so I need
to get that estimated fairly accurately.


Why not get yourself a copy of something like Anquet
(http://www.anquet.com/), which will let you plot your route and produce
figures for mileage and height gain/loss (and even timings, but IMHO,
the timings are very subjective).

Allan
(no connection with Anquet other than as a user)

  #3  
Old October 13th 15, 12:53 PM posted to uk.rec.walking
Terry Pinnell[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 15
Default Rough formula for walk 'difficulty'

Allan wrote:

On 12/10/2015 20:53, Terry Pinnell wrote:
I'm planning next summer's walk with my wife of the SW Coastal path,
from Westward Ho! to Trevenoe. I'm in the course of making estimates
of mileage and gross ascent and descent (ft), both based on my fairly
careful plotting of the path and using Google Earth's elevation
profile. Average mileage will be relatively short at about 9.0 as we
expect to set off daily at around 10:00 and arrive at the next B&B by
about 16:00, with plenty of stops en route.

I'd like to come up with some sort of 'difficulty' rating, so that I
can then even out the days before planning accommodation. So I'd be
interested in opinions on a realistic formula to use please.

Also, does anyone have actual GPS data for this section that they can
share please? The few GPX and KML files I've found so far are too
rough for my planning, particularly elevation. Based on the previous
two sections we've walked (Exmouth to Poole Harbour) and Minehead to
Westward Ho!, gross ascent is the most significant factor, so I need
to get that estimated fairly accurately.


Why not get yourself a copy of something like Anquet
(http://www.anquet.com/), which will let you plot your route and produce
figures for mileage and height gain/loss (and even timings, but IMHO,
the timings are very subjective).

Allan
(no connection with Anquet other than as a user)


Thanks, but I already have 'something like Anquet' - actually rather
better IMO, Memory-Map. As well as Google Earth. GPS Utility and
several other tools.

But these are irrelevant to my query.

--
Terry, East Grinstead, UK
  #4  
Old October 13th 15, 04:43 PM posted to uk.rec.walking
Terry Pinnell[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 15
Default Rough formula for walk 'difficulty'

Jell wrote:

Terry

That feels a bit dismissive, as a good mapping product (be it Anquet, Memory Map, OS Maps or Google Earth) is likely to be part of the answer.

I am not really sure what you are after. You have asked for a "realistic formula", so I guess you are looking for some sort of numerical output. A scale from 1 to 10 of "difficulty"? A way of assessing likely speed for a section?

Can you explain a bit more?

Jell

On Tuesday, 13 October 2015 12:54:15 UTC+1, Terry Pinnell wrote:
Allan wrote:

On 12/10/2015 20:53, Terry Pinnell wrote:
I'm planning next summer's walk with my wife of the SW Coastal path,
from Westward Ho! to Trevenoe. I'm in the course of making estimates
of mileage and gross ascent and descent (ft), both based on my fairly
careful plotting of the path and using Google Earth's elevation
profile. Average mileage will be relatively short at about 9.0 as we
expect to set off daily at around 10:00 and arrive at the next B&B by
about 16:00, with plenty of stops en route.

I'd like to come up with some sort of 'difficulty' rating, so that I
can then even out the days before planning accommodation. So I'd be
interested in opinions on a realistic formula to use please.

Also, does anyone have actual GPS data for this section that they can
share please? The few GPX and KML files I've found so far are too
rough for my planning, particularly elevation. Based on the previous
two sections we've walked (Exmouth to Poole Harbour) and Minehead to
Westward Ho!, gross ascent is the most significant factor, so I need
to get that estimated fairly accurately.


Why not get yourself a copy of something like Anquet
(http://www.anquet.com/), which will let you plot your route and produce
figures for mileage and height gain/loss (and even timings, but IMHO,
the timings are very subjective).

Allan
(no connection with Anquet other than as a user)


Thanks, but I already have 'something like Anquet' - actually rather
better IMO, Memory-Map. As well as Google Earth. GPS Utility and
several other tools.

But these are irrelevant to my query.

--
Terry, East Grinstead, UK



On Tuesday, 13 October 2015 12:54:15 UTC+1, Terry Pinnell wrote:
Allan wrote:

On 12/10/2015 20:53, Terry Pinnell wrote:
I'm planning next summer's walk with my wife of the SW Coastal path,
from Westward Ho! to Trevenoe. I'm in the course of making estimates
of mileage and gross ascent and descent (ft), both based on my fairly
careful plotting of the path and using Google Earth's elevation
profile. Average mileage will be relatively short at about 9.0 as we
expect to set off daily at around 10:00 and arrive at the next B&B by
about 16:00, with plenty of stops en route.

I'd like to come up with some sort of 'difficulty' rating, so that I
can then even out the days before planning accommodation. So I'd be
interested in opinions on a realistic formula to use please.

Also, does anyone have actual GPS data for this section that they can
share please? The few GPX and KML files I've found so far are too
rough for my planning, particularly elevation. Based on the previous
two sections we've walked (Exmouth to Poole Harbour) and Minehead to
Westward Ho!, gross ascent is the most significant factor, so I need
to get that estimated fairly accurately.


Why not get yourself a copy of something like Anquet
(http://www.anquet.com/), which will let you plot your route and produce
figures for mileage and height gain/loss (and even timings, but IMHO,
the timings are very subjective).

Allan
(no connection with Anquet other than as a user)


Thanks, but I already have 'something like Anquet' - actually rather
better IMO, Memory-Map. As well as Google Earth. GPS Utility and
several other tools.

But these are irrelevant to my query.

--
Terry, East Grinstead, UK


Well, I certainly didn't mean to be 'dismissive', if that's how it
came across.

But I thought I'd been clear that I was well equipped with appropriate
mapping software. And I also assumed that the meaning of a 'difficulty
rating' would be well understood by most walkers. Essentially a
refinement of the commonplace, like "That was a hard walk", "An easy
walk", "An extremely challenging walk", "I was completely knackered",
etc. But numerically expressed, for the reason I gave: "... even out
the days before planning accommodation".

A formula? As a purely hypothetical example, if M = Miles, A = Gross
Ascent in feet, and D = Gross Descent in feet, a simple formula for
Rating = R might be:

R = (M*1000 + 3*A + D)/1000

A 9 mile walk with 2000/1900 feet of gross ascent/descent respectively
would then have a difficulty rating of 16.9

And a 7 mile walk with 3000/3000 would be rated 19.0. That
over-simplistic formula would imply the shorter walk was harder (more
tiring, more difficult to complete, longer to finish, etc).

And if it helps further to clarify, here's what the data looks like
after a few hours work;
https://www.dropbox.com/s/4lihgrhjjd...ns-01.jpg?dl=0


--
Terry, East Grinstead, UK
  #5  
Old October 13th 15, 05:52 PM posted to uk.rec.walking
Craig Wallace
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 66
Default Rough formula for walk 'difficulty'

On 2015-10-12 20:53, Terry Pinnell wrote:
I'm planning next summer's walk with my wife of the SW Coastal path,
from Westward Ho! to Trevenoe. I'm in the course of making estimates
of mileage and gross ascent and descent (ft), both based on my fairly
careful plotting of the path and using Google Earth's elevation
profile. Average mileage will be relatively short at about 9.0 as we
expect to set off daily at around 10:00 and arrive at the next B&B by
about 16:00, with plenty of stops en route.

I'd like to come up with some sort of 'difficulty' rating, so that I
can then even out the days before planning accommodation. So I'd be
interested in opinions on a realistic formula to use please.


The usual formula for calculating time is Naismith's rule.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naismith's_rule
Allow 1 hour for every 5 kilometres (3.1 mi) forward, plus 1 hour for
every 600 metres (2,000 ft) of ascent.

There are additional corrections to allow for terrain, or fitness, or
downhills.

  #6  
Old October 13th 15, 07:44 PM posted to uk.rec.walking
Terry Pinnell[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 15
Default Rough formula for walk 'difficulty'

Craig Wallace wrote:

On 2015-10-12 20:53, Terry Pinnell wrote:
I'm planning next summer's walk with my wife of the SW Coastal path,
from Westward Ho! to Trevenoe. I'm in the course of making estimates
of mileage and gross ascent and descent (ft), both based on my fairly
careful plotting of the path and using Google Earth's elevation
profile. Average mileage will be relatively short at about 9.0 as we
expect to set off daily at around 10:00 and arrive at the next B&B by
about 16:00, with plenty of stops en route.

I'd like to come up with some sort of 'difficulty' rating, so that I
can then even out the days before planning accommodation. So I'd be
interested in opinions on a realistic formula to use please.


The usual formula for calculating time is Naismith's rule.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naismith's_rule
Allow 1 hour for every 5 kilometres (3.1 mi) forward, plus 1 hour for
every 600 metres (2,000 ft) of ascent.

There are additional corrections to allow for terrain, or fitness, or
downhills.


Thanks Craig, that will get me started. Time taken should be a good
measure of 'difficulty'. But I believe Naismith came up with that in
1892? I was wondering if there have been any refinements in 123 years?

--
Terry, East Grinstead, UK
  #7  
Old October 14th 15, 08:29 AM posted to uk.rec.walking
Ted Ferenc
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 100
Default Rough formula for walk 'difficulty'

On Mon, 12 Oct 2015 20:53:32 +0100, Terry Pinnell wrote:

I'm planning next summer's walk with my wife of the SW Coastal path,
from Westward Ho! to Trevenoe. I'm in the course of making estimates of
mileage and gross ascent and descent (ft), both based on my fairly
careful plotting of the path and using Google Earth's elevation profile.
Average mileage will be relatively short at about 9.0 as we expect to
set off daily at around 10:00 and arrive at the next B&B by about 16:00,
with plenty of stops en route.

I'd like to come up with some sort of 'difficulty' rating, so that I can
then even out the days before planning accommodation. So I'd be
interested in opinions on a realistic formula to use please.

Also, does anyone have actual GPS data for this section that they can
share please? The few GPX and KML files I've found so far are too rough
for my planning, particularly elevation. Based on the previous two
sections we've walked (Exmouth to Poole Harbour) and Minehead to
Westward Ho!, gross ascent is the most significant factor, so I need to
get that estimated fairly accurately.


When I walked sections of the path I used the book from http://
shop.southwestcoastpath.org.uk/ which I found very useful it breaks down
the walk to daily sections and gives a grading for the route.

The caveat is that the grading of the route may not match your own, which
you will find out after a couple of days when you have walked a couple of
sections, which is probably too late by then! The ascent etc. of each
section is also given.

I found the 'severe' grade easy, I normally walk in the Peak District.
  #8  
Old October 14th 15, 08:10 PM posted to uk.rec.walking
Richard Smith
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 19
Default Rough formula for walk 'difficulty'

On 13/10/15 19:44, Terry Pinnell wrote:

The usual formula for calculating time is Naismith's rule.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naismith's_rule


Thanks Craig, that will get me started. Time taken should be a good
measure of 'difficulty'. But I believe Naismith came up with that in
1892? I was wondering if there have been any refinements in 123 years?


Yes, see the section on Tranter's Corrections on the same page.

Richard


  #9  
Old October 15th 15, 12:00 PM posted to uk.rec.walking
Terry Pinnell[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 15
Default Rough formula for walk 'difficulty'

Richard Smith wrote:

On 13/10/15 19:44, Terry Pinnell wrote:

The usual formula for calculating time is Naismith's rule.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naismith's_rule


Thanks Craig, that will get me started. Time taken should be a good
measure of 'difficulty'. But I believe Naismith came up with that in
1892? I was wondering if there have been any refinements in 123 years?


Yes, see the section on Tranter's Corrections on the same page.

Thanks Richard, I should have spotted that.

--
Terry, East Grinstead, UK

  #10  
Old October 15th 15, 12:35 PM posted to uk.rec.walking
Terry Pinnell[_2_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 15
Default Rough formula for walk 'difficulty'

Ted Ferenc wrote:

On Mon, 12 Oct 2015 20:53:32 +0100, Terry Pinnell wrote:

I'm planning next summer's walk with my wife of the SW Coastal path,
from Westward Ho! to Trevenoe. I'm in the course of making estimates of
mileage and gross ascent and descent (ft), both based on my fairly
careful plotting of the path and using Google Earth's elevation profile.
Average mileage will be relatively short at about 9.0 as we expect to
set off daily at around 10:00 and arrive at the next B&B by about 16:00,
with plenty of stops en route.

I'd like to come up with some sort of 'difficulty' rating, so that I can
then even out the days before planning accommodation. So I'd be
interested in opinions on a realistic formula to use please.

Also, does anyone have actual GPS data for this section that they can
share please? The few GPX and KML files I've found so far are too rough
for my planning, particularly elevation. Based on the previous two
sections we've walked (Exmouth to Poole Harbour) and Minehead to
Westward Ho!, gross ascent is the most significant factor, so I need to
get that estimated fairly accurately.


When I walked sections of the path I used the book from http://
shop.southwestcoastpath.org.uk/ which I found very useful it breaks down
the walk to daily sections and gives a grading for the route.

The caveat is that the grading of the route may not match your own, which
you will find out after a couple of days when you have walked a couple of
sections, which is probably too late by then! The ascent etc. of each
section is also given.

I found the 'severe' grade easy, I normally walk in the Peak District.


Thanks Ted. The company we book with, Encounter, supply Trailblazer
books. These too are useful, but as you say it's ultimately a
personal, subjective matter.

Our local walking in Sussex, Kent and Surrey is not quite as
appropriate a testing ground as yours! And I get the impression that
next year's section of SWCP will be harder than C2C (2011), ODP
(2012), SDW (2013), SWCP Exmouth-Poole (2014) and SWCP
Minehead-Westward Ho! (2015). And we're both that bit older...

Peak District... We had an enjoyable week with HF at Dovedale in 2010.
Here's the rear cover of the DVD I made: I expect you'll be able to
identify those photo locations?
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...010-Rear-1.jpg

--
Terry, East Grinstead, UK
 




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