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question regarding strength training



 
 
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  #1  
Old December 28th 04, 05:45 PM
Anon
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Default question regarding strength training

The people on world's strongest man are all big heavy guys, yet the
authors of strength training books, like pavel and ross enamait are
lighter and more into strength with athleticism. What books cater to
the former?

Pavel and ross enamait's appearance make it appear that strength is
more neurological than about high levels of muscle mass. Yet the guys
on world's strongest man make it look like musclle mass is important
(not to the really high level that a bodybuilder would go, but it's
still got to be very high)
  #2  
Old December 28th 04, 06:16 PM
Keith Hobman
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Default

In article ,
(Anon) wrote:

The people on world's strongest man are all big heavy guys, yet the
authors of strength training books, like pavel and ross enamait are
lighter and more into strength with athleticism. What books cater to
the former?

Pavel and ross enamait's appearance make it appear that strength is
more neurological than about high levels of muscle mass. Yet the guys
on world's strongest man make it look like musclle mass is important
(not to the really high level that a bodybuilder would go, but it's
still got to be very high)


Strongman competition has few (or none at the pro level) weight classes.
As well it is about strength/endurance more than absolute strength. The
purest absolute strength sport is still powerlifting, while olympic
lifting is the most athletic with strength/speed being the primary
requirement.

As well there are no restrictions in strongman in regards to steroid and
other chemical aids. Since strength endurance training induces a lot of
hypertrophy and there is no weight restriction these guys get huge. OTOH -
there aren't too many (or any now that Franks is PL again) who are going
to beat the 235 lb Ed Coan at the squat, bench or deadlift.

Where there are weight classes you aren't going to see the huge amounts of
hypertrophy. And in absolute strength athletes as well as strength/speed
athletes the hypertrophy tends to be more in terms of myofibrils than
sarcomere or sarcoplasmic hypertrophy. So they don't look as big.

But there is hypertrophy. And of course they are highly adapted neurally
in their respective lifts.
  #3  
Old December 28th 04, 07:15 PM
Jim Ranieri
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Posts: n/a
Default


"Keith Hobman" wrote in message
...
In article ,
(Anon) wrote:

The people on world's strongest man are all big heavy guys, yet the
authors of strength training books, like pavel and ross enamait are
lighter and more into strength with athleticism. What books cater to
the former?

Pavel and ross enamait's appearance make it appear that strength is
more neurological than about high levels of muscle mass. Yet the guys
on world's strongest man make it look like musclle mass is important
(not to the really high level that a bodybuilder would go, but it's
still got to be very high)


Strongman competition has few (or none at the pro level) weight classes.
As well it is about strength/endurance more than absolute strength. The
purest absolute strength sport is still powerlifting, while olympic
lifting is the most athletic with strength/speed being the primary
requirement.

As well there are no restrictions in strongman in regards to steroid and
other chemical aids. Since strength endurance training induces a lot of
hypertrophy and there is no weight restriction these guys get huge. OTOH -
there aren't too many (or any now that Franks is PL again) who are going
to beat the 235 lb Ed Coan at the squat, bench or deadlift.

Where there are weight classes you aren't going to see the huge amounts of
hypertrophy. And in absolute strength athletes as well as strength/speed
athletes the hypertrophy tends to be more in terms of myofibrils than
sarcomere or sarcoplasmic hypertrophy. So they don't look as big.

But there is hypertrophy. And of course they are highly adapted neurally
in their respective lifts.


I still think cross-sectional area gets sold short in discussions about
strength. Neural adaptation is key, of course - but I think it'll only take
you so far before you're going to have to increase your CSA to make further
strength gains.


  #4  
Old December 28th 04, 08:32 PM
Lurker
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Posts: n/a
Default

Keith Hobman wrote:

In article ,
(Anon) wrote:


The people on world's strongest man are all big heavy guys, yet the
authors of strength training books, like pavel and ross enamait are
lighter and more into strength with athleticism. What books cater to
the former?

Pavel and ross enamait's appearance make it appear that strength is
more neurological than about high levels of muscle mass. Yet the guys
on world's strongest man make it look like musclle mass is important
(not to the really high level that a bodybuilder would go, but it's
still got to be very high)



Strongman competition has few (or none at the pro level) weight classes.
As well it is about strength/endurance more than absolute strength. The
purest absolute strength sport is still powerlifting, while olympic
lifting is the most athletic with strength/speed being the primary
requirement.

As well there are no restrictions in strongman in regards to steroid and
other chemical aids. Since strength endurance training induces a lot of
hypertrophy and there is no weight restriction these guys get huge. OTOH -
there aren't too many (or any now that Franks is PL again) who are going
to beat the 235 lb Ed Coan at the squat, bench or deadlift.

Where there are weight classes you aren't going to see the huge amounts of
hypertrophy. And in absolute strength athletes as well as strength/speed
athletes the hypertrophy tends to be more in terms of myofibrils than
sarcomere or sarcoplasmic hypertrophy. So they don't look as big.

But there is hypertrophy. And of course they are highly adapted neurally
in their respective lifts.


Wow, there is a lot of information there.

I don't keep up enough to know where you are located, but if you are
near the CSA headquarters in Toronto, Edmonton, or Kelowna would you
consider taking out a contract on someone(s)?

--
Lurker

300_30%_31yo/???_??%/245_15%_32yo
Miracle of Medicine
http://jamesrobert.us
  #5  
Old December 28th 04, 08:42 PM
Keith Hobman
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Posts: n/a
Default

In article , Lurker
wrote:

Keith Hobman wrote:

In article ,
(Anon) wrote:


The people on world's strongest man are all big heavy guys, yet the
authors of strength training books, like pavel and ross enamait are
lighter and more into strength with athleticism. What books cater to
the former?

Pavel and ross enamait's appearance make it appear that strength is
more neurological than about high levels of muscle mass. Yet the guys
on world's strongest man make it look like musclle mass is important
(not to the really high level that a bodybuilder would go, but it's
still got to be very high)



Strongman competition has few (or none at the pro level) weight classes.
As well it is about strength/endurance more than absolute strength. The
purest absolute strength sport is still powerlifting, while olympic
lifting is the most athletic with strength/speed being the primary
requirement.

As well there are no restrictions in strongman in regards to steroid and
other chemical aids. Since strength endurance training induces a lot of
hypertrophy and there is no weight restriction these guys get huge. OTOH -
there aren't too many (or any now that Franks is PL again) who are going
to beat the 235 lb Ed Coan at the squat, bench or deadlift.

Where there are weight classes you aren't going to see the huge amounts of
hypertrophy. And in absolute strength athletes as well as strength/speed
athletes the hypertrophy tends to be more in terms of myofibrils than
sarcomere or sarcoplasmic hypertrophy. So they don't look as big.

But there is hypertrophy. And of course they are highly adapted neurally
in their respective lifts.


Wow, there is a lot of information there.

I don't keep up enough to know where you are located, but if you are
near the CSA headquarters in Toronto, Edmonton, or Kelowna would you
consider taking out a contract on someone(s)?


Sorry. Saskatoon. You may have to do your own killin'.

:^)
  #6  
Old December 28th 04, 10:52 PM
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


Keith Hobman wrote:
In article ,
(Anon) wrote:

The people on world's strongest man are all big heavy guys, yet the
authors of strength training books, like pavel and ross enamait are
lighter and more into strength with athleticism. What books cater

to
the former?

Pavel and ross enamait's appearance make it appear that strength is
more neurological than about high levels of muscle mass. Yet the

guys
on world's strongest man make it look like musclle mass is

important
(not to the really high level that a bodybuilder would go, but it's
still got to be very high)


Of course, Ross and Pavel are hadly the only (or leading) authors of
strength training books. Louie Simmons is probably as prolific an
author as there is (albeit not in journal or usually book form) on the
subject and he is not a small guy.

Strongman competition has few (or none at the pro level) weight

classes.
As well it is about strength/endurance more than absolute strength.

The
purest absolute strength sport is still powerlifting, while olympic
lifting is the most athletic with strength/speed being the primary
requirement.

As well there are no restrictions in strongman in regards to steroid

and
other chemical aids. Since strength endurance training induces a lot

of
hypertrophy and there is no weight restriction these guys get huge.

OTOH -
there aren't too many (or any now that Franks is PL again) who are

going
to beat the 235 lb Ed Coan at the squat, bench or deadlift.


Quibble: shirt or no shirt, there are more than a few big guys these
days who can outbench Ed Coan.

Where there are weight classes you aren't going to see the huge

amounts of
hypertrophy. And in absolute strength athletes as well as

strength/speed
athletes the hypertrophy tends to be more in terms of myofibrils than
sarcomere or sarcoplasmic hypertrophy. So they don't look as big.

But there is hypertrophy. And of course they are highly adapted

neurally
in their respective lifts.


  #10  
Old December 29th 04, 04:04 AM
Steve Freides
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Posts: n/a
Default

"Jim Ranieri" wrote in message
...

"Keith Hobman" wrote in message
...
In article ,
(Anon) wrote:

The people on world's strongest man are all big heavy guys, yet the
authors of strength training books, like pavel and ross enamait are
lighter and more into strength with athleticism. What books cater
to
the former?

Pavel and ross enamait's appearance make it appear that strength is
more neurological than about high levels of muscle mass. Yet the
guys
on world's strongest man make it look like musclle mass is
important
(not to the really high level that a bodybuilder would go, but it's
still got to be very high)


Strongman competition has few (or none at the pro level) weight
classes.
As well it is about strength/endurance more than absolute strength.
The
purest absolute strength sport is still powerlifting, while olympic
lifting is the most athletic with strength/speed being the primary
requirement.

As well there are no restrictions in strongman in regards to steroid
and
other chemical aids. Since strength endurance training induces a lot
of
hypertrophy and there is no weight restriction these guys get huge.
OTOH -
there aren't too many (or any now that Franks is PL again) who are
going
to beat the 235 lb Ed Coan at the squat, bench or deadlift.

Where there are weight classes you aren't going to see the huge
amounts of
hypertrophy. And in absolute strength athletes as well as
strength/speed
athletes the hypertrophy tends to be more in terms of myofibrils than
sarcomere or sarcoplasmic hypertrophy. So they don't look as big.

But there is hypertrophy. And of course they are highly adapted
neurally
in their respective lifts.


I still think cross-sectional area gets sold short in discussions
about
strength. Neural adaptation is key, of course - but I think it'll only
take
you so far before you're going to have to increase your CSA to make
further
strength gains.


I respectfully disagree with this last point. My lifting is focused
solely on taking the neural adaptation as far as it can go; I've been at
it for a few years and don't feel like I've even gotten close to my
potential. Granted that I might make faster progress if I allowed
myself to add muscle, I don't think it's fair to say you can only go so
far before you need a larger cross-sectional area of muscle. To the
best of my knowledge, what little has been written on this subject
suggests that our percentage useage of our strength is much like our
percentage useage of our brains - we get nowhere near using most of what
we've got. That being the case, it seems possible to look for
continuing increases in "neural adaptation" for a long time.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com


 




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