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Self-delusion as a coping tool



 
 
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  #1  
Old September 15th 04, 03:34 PM
Dally
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Self-delusion as a coping tool

DRS, you keep quoting me in your sig file and it's really kind of funny
because I am quite sure you don't actually admire my wisdom and seek to
share it. I think you need to either figure out what I mean by that or
explain to me why you think it's so ridiculous.

When I was very fat with sore knees and too big for running clothes I
wore spandex tights in the workout room. I deluded myself that no one
was laughing at me - in fact, I sort of deluded myself into thinking I
was invisible. This coping strategy allowed me to overcome serious
embarrassment and show my fat ass in public long enough to LOSE the fat
ass. I've lost 74 pounds in the past two years. Self-delusion has been
a POWERFUL tool for me.

Right now I'm training for a 5K race. The fact is, I can't run 5K
without stopping, particularly on this course which goes half a mile up
something named "Mountain Road" for good reason. I sent in the entry
form yesterday. I'm absolutely deluding myself that I can run this.
Yet I go out there and train anyway. Yesterday I noticed I made it all
the way up a training hill that I couldn't run all the way up last week.
Can I run up Mountain Road yet? No way. But I am pretending that
it's possible to do by October 2. Self-delusion gets me out doing hill
drills and "long-slow runs" (which never quite make 3 miles) and
otherwise making significant progress that I wouldn't make if I didn't
act like it was at least possible. Self-delusion will get me across
that finish line... possibly in last place. But I'll be out there trying.

You grabbed the quote from a long thread on religion. You laugh at my
choice to believe in a possibility because I PREFER to believe in that
possibility. You truly underestimate the power of positive
visualization. Taking the world as I would PREFER it to be so that I
behave accordingly has been very powerful tool for transforming myself,
as well as helping me to feel happier with the stuff I can't change.

You don't have to use it. I'm particularly good at holding
unlikely-to-be-true beliefs in my head. Maybe it was my time spent
studying particle physics. Is it a wave? Is it a particle? I don't
really care, I pick the answer I like best to solve the problem at hand.
I don't need absolutes, I need constructs.

Does any of this make any sense to you? If not, at least the people
reading your sig file might understand why the joke's on you.

Dally

  #2  
Old September 15th 04, 03:41 PM
DRS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Dally" wrote in message

DRS, you keep quoting me in your sig file and it's really kind of
funny because I am quite sure you don't actually admire my wisdom and
seek to share it. I think you need to either figure out what I mean
by that or explain to me why you think it's so ridiculous.


I don't admire your wisdom. I think you're a dangerous fool. If the
consequences of your deliberate self-delusions were confined to yourself it
would warrant little mention but unfortunately you think it's acceptable to
make **** up out of thin air and then mutilate your children on the basis of
your delusions. That's what it's really all about - as if you didn't know.

--

"Self-delusion as a coping tool has always been a fairly useful strategy for
me."
Dally


  #3  
Old September 15th 04, 03:52 PM
Donovan Rebbechi
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Posts: n/a
Default

On 2004-09-15, Dally wrote:

I'm just going to comment on the training aspect of this post:

Right now I'm training for a 5K race. The fact is, I can't run 5K
without stopping, particularly on this course which goes half a mile up
something named "Mountain Road" for good reason. I sent in the entry
form yesterday. I'm absolutely deluding myself that I can run this.
Yet I go out there and train anyway. Yesterday I noticed I made it all
the way up a training hill that I couldn't run all the way up last week.
Can I run up Mountain Road yet? No way. But I am pretending that
it's possible to do by October 2. Self-delusion gets me out doing hill
drills and "long-slow runs" (which never quite make 3 miles) and
otherwise making significant progress that I wouldn't make if I didn't
act like it was at least possible. Self-delusion will get me across
that finish line... possibly in last place. But I'll be out there trying.


What sort of training are you doing exactly ? What you've described sounds
pretty good.

The hill runs are important, because you need to have enough of a "surplus"
of vo2 that you can run up the hills. Even a 12 minute/mile pace is reasonably
difficult up a 10% grade (I think it's comparable to about 8min/mile on flats)

Anyway, I'd recommend against any speed work given your goals, just use hills
for intensity.

The general rule for any sort of intense training is that total volume should
be in the range of about 10-20 minutes (that excludes time between reps,
warmup and cooldown.) So if you have a 2 minute hill, try about 5 reps. If
it's a 5 minute climb, try 3 reps. I wouldn't recommend reps of more than 5
minutes duration -- make the reps longer than that and intensity suffers.

It may also be worth attempting longer runs than 3 miles. You can take a break
for a drink of water if necessary. As long as the break is fairly short, you
still get the desired training effect, as well as the psychological boost of
having an "over distance" run under your belt.

Good luck,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/
  #4  
Old September 15th 04, 04:33 PM
John HUDSON
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Wed, 15 Sep 2004 10:34:08 -0400, Dally wrote:

DRS, you keep quoting me in your sig file and it's really kind of funny
because I am quite sure you don't actually admire my wisdom and seek to
share it. I think you need to either figure out what I mean by that or
explain to me why you think it's so ridiculous.

When I was very fat with sore knees and too big for running clothes I
wore spandex tights in the workout room. I deluded myself that no one
was laughing at me - in fact, I sort of deluded myself into thinking I
was invisible. This coping strategy allowed me to overcome serious
embarrassment and show my fat ass in public long enough to LOSE the fat
ass. I've lost 74 pounds in the past two years. Self-delusion has been
a POWERFUL tool for me.

Right now I'm training for a 5K race. The fact is, I can't run 5K
without stopping, particularly on this course which goes half a mile up
something named "Mountain Road" for good reason. I sent in the entry
form yesterday. I'm absolutely deluding myself that I can run this.
Yet I go out there and train anyway. Yesterday I noticed I made it all
the way up a training hill that I couldn't run all the way up last week.
Can I run up Mountain Road yet? No way. But I am pretending that
it's possible to do by October 2. Self-delusion gets me out doing hill
drills and "long-slow runs" (which never quite make 3 miles) and
otherwise making significant progress that I wouldn't make if I didn't
act like it was at least possible. Self-delusion will get me across
that finish line... possibly in last place. But I'll be out there trying.

You grabbed the quote from a long thread on religion. You laugh at my
choice to believe in a possibility because I PREFER to believe in that
possibility. You truly underestimate the power of positive
visualization. Taking the world as I would PREFER it to be so that I
behave accordingly has been very powerful tool for transforming myself,
as well as helping me to feel happier with the stuff I can't change.

You don't have to use it. I'm particularly good at holding
unlikely-to-be-true beliefs in my head. Maybe it was my time spent
studying particle physics. Is it a wave? Is it a particle? I don't
really care, I pick the answer I like best to solve the problem at hand.
I don't need absolutes, I need constructs.

Does any of this make any sense to you? If not, at least the people
reading your sig file might understand why the joke's on you.


You have no need to justify or explain yourself Wendy; DRS Dave is a
cowardly poofter prick, who when he was on the receiving end ran for
the alleged "killfiles"!!

Either ignore the limp-wristed **** or tell him to **** off!!


  #5  
Old September 15th 04, 04:47 PM
Steve Freides
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Dally" wrote in message
...
DRS, you keep quoting me in your sig file and it's really kind of
funny because I am quite sure you don't actually admire my wisdom and
seek to share it. I think you need to either figure out what I mean
by that or explain to me why you think it's so ridiculous.

When I was very fat with sore knees and too big for running clothes I
wore spandex tights in the workout room. I deluded myself that no one
was laughing at me - in fact, I sort of deluded myself into thinking I
was invisible. This coping strategy allowed me to overcome serious
embarrassment and show my fat ass in public long enough to LOSE the
fat ass. I've lost 74 pounds in the past two years. Self-delusion
has been a POWERFUL tool for me.

Right now I'm training for a 5K race. The fact is, I can't run 5K
without stopping, particularly on this course which goes half a mile
up something named "Mountain Road" for good reason. I sent in the
entry form yesterday. I'm absolutely deluding myself that I can run
this. Yet I go out there and train anyway. Yesterday I noticed I made
it all the way up a training hill that I couldn't run all the way up
last week. Can I run up Mountain Road yet? No way. But I am
pretending that it's possible to do by October 2. Self-delusion gets
me out doing hill drills and "long-slow runs" (which never quite make
3 miles) and otherwise making significant progress that I wouldn't
make if I didn't act like it was at least possible. Self-delusion
will get me across that finish line... possibly in last place. But
I'll be out there trying.

You grabbed the quote from a long thread on religion. You laugh at my
choice to believe in a possibility because I PREFER to believe in that
possibility. You truly underestimate the power of positive
visualization. Taking the world as I would PREFER it to be so that I
behave accordingly has been very powerful tool for transforming
myself, as well as helping me to feel happier with the stuff I can't
change.

You don't have to use it. I'm particularly good at holding
unlikely-to-be-true beliefs in my head. Maybe it was my time spent
studying particle physics. Is it a wave? Is it a particle? I don't
really care, I pick the answer I like best to solve the problem at
hand. I don't need absolutes, I need constructs.

Does any of this make any sense to you? If not, at least the people
reading your sig file might understand why the joke's on you.


Dally, when you know you're deluding yourself, you're aren't deluding
yourself.

You're a whole lot more smart and self-aware than you seem to be giving
yourself credit for. Bottom line: you went to the gym and you lost the
weight. I don't care if you chanted Hare Krisha the entire time or wore
a purple jock strap around your ears, you did it, which is more than the
overwhelming majority of still-obese Americans have done to date.
Whatever gets you through is whatever gets you through - you got
through, bravo, and keep up the good work. This is MFW - learn what you
can, say what you want, ignore the rest.

Steve "seems to be cheerleading lately, don't know why" Freides
http://www.kbnj.com


  #6  
Old September 15th 04, 04:52 PM
Dally
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

DRS wrote:
"Dally" wrote:

DRS, you keep quoting me in your sig file and it's really kind of
funny because I am quite sure you don't actually admire my wisdom and
seek to share it. I think you need to either figure out what I mean
by that or explain to me why you think it's so ridiculous.


I don't admire your wisdom. I think you're a dangerous fool. If the
consequences of your deliberate self-delusions were confined to yourself it
would warrant little mention but unfortunately you think it's acceptable to
make **** up out of thin air and then mutilate your children on the basis of
your delusions. That's what it's really all about - as if you didn't know.


So your quoting me is actually a plaintive cry for help for my male
children? How kind of you. And how confusing.

If you really mean it to be an indictment of my decision to circumsize
my (Jewish) sons, then don't you think you could pick a more
illuminating quote? How's this: "After deliberating the benefits and
risks, I chose to have my sons circumsized in a bris - an ancient
ceremony commonly done to nearly every male member of my cultural group."

I don't really think those two acts define me either as a person or as a
parent. But at least that quote reflects my complex position on this
controversial topic concisely. Your quoting my "self-delusion as a
useful coping tool" concept is just plain confusing if you're trying to
make fun of me. It *is* a useful tool. I at least practice it knowing
it's delusion. You are just deluded without awareness of it.

Dally

  #7  
Old September 15th 04, 05:02 PM
Lee Michaels
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Steve Freides" wrote

Dally, when you know you're deluding yourself, you're aren't deluding
yourself.

You're a whole lot more smart and self-aware than you seem to be giving
yourself credit for. Bottom line: you went to the gym and you lost the
weight. I don't care if you chanted Hare Krisha the entire time or wore
a purple jock strap around your ears, you did it, which is more than the
overwhelming majority of still-obese Americans have done to date.
Whatever gets you through is whatever gets you through - you got
through, bravo, and keep up the good work. This is MFW - learn what you
can, say what you want, ignore the rest.


I must be coming down with a fever or something. Cuz I am actually agreeing
with the resident Pavelite.

I have worked with hundreds of folks over the years. I would say that no
more than 25% of them ever really followed through for a long term. And I am
highly selective with who i work with too.

For a self employed, middle aged woman with kids and a hubby, you are doing
just fine. I find some of the stuff you say a little ridiculous from time
to time. But your training results speak for themselves. You are not only
doing well, but you acheived your results the old fashioned way. You earned
it!! You worked for it!!

And as such, you earned the right to be proud of your accomplishments. And
not babbling bull**** when it comes to what you actually did to make the
changes counts for something as well. This is NOT a blanket endorsement of
some of the stuff that you post from time to time.

But your physical transformation is well documented and noteworthy. Have a
drink on me on the next appropriate refeed day.

Lee Michaels



  #8  
Old September 15th 04, 05:59 PM
DRS
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

"Dally" wrote in message

DRS wrote:
"Dally" wrote:

DRS, you keep quoting me in your sig file and it's really kind of
funny because I am quite sure you don't actually admire my wisdom
and seek to share it. I think you need to either figure out what I
mean by that or explain to me why you think it's so ridiculous.


I don't admire your wisdom. I think you're a dangerous fool. If the
consequences of your deliberate self-delusions were confined to
yourself it would warrant little mention but unfortunately you think
it's acceptable to make **** up out of thin air and then mutilate
your children on the basis of your delusions. That's what it's
really all about - as if you didn't know.


So your quoting me is actually a plaintive cry for help for my male
children? How kind of you. And how confusing.


Only you could find something so simple confusing.

If you really mean it to be an indictment of my decision to circumsize
my (Jewish) sons, then don't you think you could pick a more
illuminating quote? How's this: "After deliberating the benefits and
risks, I chose to have my sons circumsized in a bris - an ancient
ceremony commonly done to nearly every male member of my cultural
group."


Because that misses the point, something you have honed to a fine art.

I don't really think those two acts define me either as a person or
as a parent. But at least that quote reflects my complex position on
this controversial topic concisely. Your quoting my "self-delusion


"Complex position" like ****. You simply didn't care enough about your sons
to stand by your initial, correct position. Instead you chose to harm them
on the basis of a belief you admit you plucked out of thin air
(http://groups.google.com.au/groups?s...0uni-berlin.de).
That is utterly contemptible.

as a useful coping tool" concept is just plain confusing if you're
trying to make fun of me. It *is* a useful tool. I at least
practice it knowing it's delusion. You are just deluded without
awareness of it.


Weak.

--

"Self-delusion as a coping tool has always been a fairly useful strategy for
me."
Dally


  #9  
Old September 15th 04, 07:23 PM
Dally
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Donovan Rebbechi wrote:

On 2004-09-15, Dally wrote:

I'm just going to comment on the training aspect of this post:

Right now I'm training for a 5K race. The fact is, I can't run 5K
without stopping, particularly on this course which goes half a mile up
something named "Mountain Road" for good reason. I sent in the entry
form yesterday. I'm absolutely deluding myself that I can run this.
Yet I go out there and train anyway. Yesterday I noticed I made it all
the way up a training hill that I couldn't run all the way up last week.
Can I run up Mountain Road yet? No way. But I am pretending that
it's possible to do by October 2. Self-delusion gets me out doing hill
drills and "long-slow runs" (which never quite make 3 miles) and
otherwise making significant progress that I wouldn't make if I didn't
act like it was at least possible. Self-delusion will get me across
that finish line... possibly in last place. But I'll be out there trying.



What sort of training are you doing exactly ? What you've described sounds
pretty good.


I'm embarrassed to detail it - I wasn't kidding about not being able to
run 5K. What I've been doing is going out running about three times a
week where I bring a stop watch with me and run for progressively longer
periods and walk for progressively shorter periods. Yesterday I "ran"
for 40 minutes, where 34 were running and 6 were walking, including 3
sessions where I walked for two minutes, usually up hills.

Then one day a week I cross-train, usually doing HIIT on my NordicTrack.
And I've added a "hills day" where I do pretty much what you said, I
warm up then I tackle a big hill near my house over and over again until
10 minutes is elapsed and I'm ready to roll down the hill in a puddle.
Meanwhile, I've been weightlifting three days a week. Getting in 8
workouts a week hasn't worked well for my "rest" day and I'm a bit
exhausted at the moment. I'm skipping an upper body workout today to
just do some gentle biking and roller blading with my boys. (Those
would be my horribly abused boys, by the way.)

The hill runs are important, because you need to have enough of a "surplus"
of vo2 that you can run up the hills. Even a 12 minute/mile pace is reasonably
difficult up a 10% grade (I think it's comparable to about 8min/mile on flats)


LOL, yesterday I was running up a hill and a lady was pushing a baby
carriage up the same hill and I had a hell of a time passing her! I
*look* like I'm running, but apparently it's in slow motion!

Anyway, I'd recommend against any speed work given your goals, just use hills
for intensity.


It's nice to not feel guilty about skipping the 100 meter dashes. I
haven't bothered with it just because I only really have four good run
days. I thought of it the other day when I was running a mile to
warm-up before weight-lifting. I figured if I did the mile REALLY fast
I could work on bringing up my pace. All I accomplished was to blow my
legs before my squatting session. Lesson learned was that warm-up runs
can't be co-opted for speed work if I want to do any weightlifting aftwards.

The general rule for any sort of intense training is that total volume should
be in the range of about 10-20 minutes (that excludes time between reps,
warmup and cooldown.) So if you have a 2 minute hill, try about 5 reps. If
it's a 5 minute climb, try 3 reps. I wouldn't recommend reps of more than 5
minutes duration -- make the reps longer than that and intensity suffers.


Thanks for the rule of thumb. I'll time how long it takes me to run up
the hill. Last time I got three reps in 10 minutes. I like the idea of
skipping the HIIT on the NordicTrack and doing the hills that day
instead. At least until the race. Even the little bit of hill work
I've done has shown nearly immediate benefits.

It may also be worth attempting longer runs than 3 miles. You can take a break
for a drink of water if necessary. As long as the break is fairly short, you
still get the desired training effect, as well as the psychological boost of
having an "over distance" run under your belt.


I'm trying, I'm trying! Part of my problem is the rigors of running in
a hilly park. I think I could do an over-distance run on the dreadmills
at the gym, but the weather is so beautiful and the trails are so sweet
and the gym is so awful... they're doing construction and the fumes are
rotten, plus they've got the treadmills set to go off at 25 minutes
which means you have to stop and get in line for another treadmill at 25
minutes (which isn't a terrible problem when I go, just annoying for
timed runs.)

Do you think it's worth it to go do four miles on Saturday (two weeks
before the race day) on a treadmill or keep slugging along at trying to
do 3 miles outside without interruption?

By the way, does the term "lactic threshold run" mean what I think it
means? I think it means you run until you feel a stitch in your side
and/or burn in your legs and you keep running through the pain instead
of stopping. Is that the point of that sort of run? (Of course, as you
can guess, nearly ALL my runs are in that category.)

Dally

  #10  
Old September 15th 04, 07:28 PM
Dally
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default

DRS wrote:

"Dally" wrote in message

I don't really think those two acts define me either as a person or
as a parent. But at least that quote reflects my complex position on
this controversial topic concisely.



"Complex position" like ****. You simply didn't care enough about your sons
to stand by your initial, correct position. Instead you chose to harm them
on the basis of a belief you admit you plucked out of thin air
(http://groups.google.com.au/groups?s...0uni-berlin.de).
That is utterly contemptible.


Did you click on that link? That's an example of me being utterly
contemptable in my foolish self-delusion?

Okay, guilty. I just suspect that my quote doesn't mean what you think
it means. But carry on.

Dally

 




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