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Muscle building, nutrient timing for diabetics



 
 
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  #1  
Old January 13th 08, 05:00 PM posted to misc.fitness.weights, alt.support.diabetes
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Posts: 6
Default Muscle building, nutrient timing for diabetics

Is there a 'Nutrient Timing' strategy for diabetics?

Quite a few authors are saying roughly the same thing, viz:

Available amino acids and insulin together are crucial for muscle
building. Fast carbs provoke an insulin spike. So right before /
after your workout, consume some fast-acting carbs and fast-digesting
protein. Typically, they're talking about 20g of glucose or starch.

Makes sense to me. Problem is, I'm a type II diabetic. Well
controlled with 4 years of very low carb dieting; my A1c runs between
4.9 to 5.3%. I've lost 50 lbs since diagnosis. Which is to say, my
insulin resistance should be close to the normal range, now.

Still, 20g of fast carbs will send my blood glucose above 200. Big no-
no. This indicates that my initial-phase insulin response is still
weak. I'm not on insulin, so I can't just inject some to raise it
for muscle building. Clearly, I'd need to adapt the advice to fit my
body and my pancreas.

I just got Jeff Volek's 'TNT Diet'. I've been reading the Amazon
reviews of 3 books by Lyle MacDonald and reviews of 'Nutrient Timing'
and 'Performance Zone' by Ivy and Portman. Its clear from the reviews
that there are quite a few other books out there taking this same
general approach, too.

Do any of the authors that advocate this kind of an approach include a
section on adapting it to diabetics? Or are there some good
discussions on it somewhere on the web?

Adam Becker Sr
  #2  
Old January 14th 08, 05:49 PM posted to misc.fitness.weights, alt.support.diabetes
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Posts: 1
Default Muscle building, nutrient timing for diabetics

On Jan 13, 11:00*am, wrote:
Is there a 'Nutrient Timing' strategy for diabetics?

Quite a few authors are saying roughly the same thing, viz:

Available amino acids and insulin together are crucial for muscle
building. *Fast carbs provoke an insulin spike. *So right before /
after your workout, consume some fast-acting carbs and fast-digesting
protein. *Typically, they're talking about 20g of glucose or starch.

Makes sense to me. *Problem is, I'm a type II diabetic. *Well
controlled with 4 years of very low carb dieting; my A1c runs between
4.9 to 5.3%. *I've lost 50 lbs since diagnosis. *Which is to say, my
insulin resistance should be close to the normal range, now.

Still, 20g of fast carbs will send my blood glucose above 200. *Big no-
no. *This indicates that my initial-phase insulin response is still
weak. * I'm not on insulin, so I can't just inject some to raise it
for muscle building. *Clearly, I'd need to adapt the advice to fit my
body and my pancreas.

I just got Jeff Volek's 'TNT Diet'. *I've been reading the Amazon
reviews of 3 books by Lyle MacDonald and reviews of 'Nutrient Timing'
and 'Performance Zone' by Ivy and Portman. *Its clear from the reviews
that there are quite a few other books out there taking this same
general approach, too.

Do any of the authors that advocate this kind of an approach include a
section on adapting it to diabetics? *Or are there some good
discussions on it somewhere on the web?

Adam Becker Sr


Whey protein will spike insulin without the bg probelms.( in normal
folks anyway)

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/494021

Randy
  #3  
Old January 14th 08, 06:12 PM posted to misc.fitness.weights, alt.support.diabetes
Sag
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Posts: 51
Default Muscle building, nutrient timing for diabetics

On Jan 13, 2:00*pm, wrote:
Is there a 'Nutrient Timing' strategy for diabetics?


You may be in luck.


Quite a few authors are saying roughly the same thing, viz:

Available amino acids and insulin together are crucial for muscle
building. *Fast carbs provoke an insulin spike. *So right before /
after your workout, consume some fast-acting carbs and fast-digesting
protein. *Typically, they're talking about 20g of glucose or starch.


And other authors (Art de Vany, Rob Faigin, Robb Wolf) strongly advise
*against* carbohydrate in postworkout drinks. Their rationale is that,
while carbs cause an insulin spike, the same spike will shutdown
growth hormone production. Make yourself a 100g protein drink, sip a
little before and during workout, and drink the rest after.





Makes sense to me. *Problem is, I'm a type II diabetic. *Well
controlled with 4 years of very low carb dieting; my A1c runs between
4.9 to 5.3%. *I've lost 50 lbs since diagnosis. *Which is to say, my
insulin resistance should be close to the normal range, now.

Still, 20g of fast carbs will send my blood glucose above 200. *Big no-
no. *This indicates that my initial-phase insulin response is still
weak. * I'm not on insulin, so I can't just inject some to raise it
for muscle building. *Clearly, I'd need to adapt the advice to fit my
body and my pancreas.

I just got Jeff Volek's 'TNT Diet'. *I've been reading the Amazon
reviews of 3 books by Lyle MacDonald and reviews of 'Nutrient Timing'
and 'Performance Zone' by Ivy and Portman. *Its clear from the reviews
that there are quite a few other books out there taking this same
general approach, too.

Do any of the authors that advocate this kind of an approach include a
section on adapting it to diabetics? *Or are there some good
discussions on it somewhere on the web?

Adam Becker Sr


In your situation, I'd give the above approach a try. You can find
Faigin´s discussion of the issue online he
http://www.hormonalfitness.com/pdfs/NHE-Chapter-21.pdf. Check it out
  #4  
Old January 14th 08, 06:50 PM posted to misc.fitness.weights,alt.support.diabetes
Jefferson
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Posts: 3
Default Muscle building, nutrient timing for diabetics

wrote:
Is there a 'Nutrient Timing' strategy for diabetics?

Quite a few authors are saying roughly the same thing, viz:


Amino Acid Ingestion Strongly Enhances Insulin Secretion in Patients
With Long-Term Type 2 Diabetes -
http://care.diabetesjournals.org/cgi.../full/26/3/625
21 citations of this article - http://tinyurl.com/yu4wfh

Available amino acids and insulin together are crucial for muscle
building. Fast carbs provoke an insulin spike. So right before /
after your workout, consume some fast-acting carbs and fast-digesting
protein. Typically, they're talking about 20g of glucose or starch.

Makes sense to me. Problem is, I'm a type II diabetic. Well
controlled with 4 years of very low carb dieting; my A1c runs between
4.9 to 5.3%. I've lost 50 lbs since diagnosis. Which is to say, my
insulin resistance should be close to the normal range, now.


Adam I presume that insulin resistance in type 2 diabetics has some
genetic basis. Even young, lean, healthy offspring of type 2 diabetics
have higher insulin resistance than matched controls without diabetic
backgrounds. This is not to say that insulin resistance can not be
greatly improved and gene expression changed favorably.

Exercise needs to be maintained at intervals of less than 48 hours to
minimize insulin resistance in peripheral muscles.

Efforts to minimize oxidative stress should also be considered, i.e.,
according to Bruce Ames, vitamin B-2 can help to restore the active
glutathione from it's oxidized form. Blood glutathione oxidation during
human exercise - http://jap.physiology.org/cgi/content/abstract/64/1/115.
There are numerous cites of this article, but NAC, while a general
antioxidant, may not be advisable.

Frank
  #5  
Old January 14th 08, 10:24 PM posted to misc.fitness.weights, alt.support.diabetes
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Posts: 6
Default Muscle building, nutrient timing for diabetics

On Jan 14, 11:49 am, " wrote:
Whey protein will spike insulin without the bg probelms.( in normal
folks anyway)
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/494021


Thanks! Excellent article; answered a lot of my questions.

Though I was a little puzzled by the statement "Carbohydrate-
containing foods are listed as advantageous over other food groups, in
particular for diabetic and glucose-intolerant individuals, because
they induce low glycemic responses."

Adam Becker Sr
  #6  
Old January 14th 08, 10:32 PM posted to misc.fitness.weights, alt.support.diabetes
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Posts: 6
Default Muscle building, nutrient timing for diabetics

On Jan 14, 12:50 pm, Jefferson wrote:
Exercise needs to be maintained at intervals of less than 48 hours to
minimize insulin resistance in peripheral muscles.


Yeah, and all the exercise books are telling me that I should wait *at
least* 48 hours before doing resistance exercises in the same
muscles . So I guess I need to do cardio in the off days.

But that raises a question - when I do some cardio exercise that
really works my gluts, (like walking) and not my core and upper body,
am I lowering my insulin resistance in *all* my musculature, or just
in the muscles that got worked out?

Adam Becker Sr
  #7  
Old January 14th 08, 10:39 PM posted to misc.fitness.weights, alt.support.diabetes
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Posts: 6
Default Muscle building, nutrient timing for diabetics

On Jan 14, 12:12 pm, Sag wrote:
In your situation, I'd give the above approach a try. You can find
Faigin´s discussion of the issue online hehttp://www.hormonalfitness.com/pdfs/NHE-Chapter-21.pdf. Check it out


I'm printing out all 89 pp of it. Thanks; looks like there's a lot
more there than just diabetic exercise.

Adam Becker

  #8  
Old January 15th 08, 01:29 AM posted to misc.fitness.weights,alt.support.diabetes
Jefferson
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Posts: 3
Default Muscle building, nutrient timing for diabetics

wrote:
On Jan 14, 12:50 pm, Jefferson wrote:

Exercise needs to be maintained at intervals of less than 48 hours to
minimize insulin resistance in peripheral muscles.



Yeah, and all the exercise books are telling me that I should wait *at
least* 48 hours before doing resistance exercises in the same
muscles . So I guess I need to do cardio in the off days.

But that raises a question - when I do some cardio exercise that
really works my gluts, (like walking) and not my core and upper body,
am I lowering my insulin resistance in *all* my musculature, or just
in the muscles that got worked out?


I suspect that it would be the muscles worked out. At one time I had
read an article where selected muscles were exercised (one leg exercised
and the other idle) and biopsies were taken from each before and
afterwards.

Since you have some biochemistry background, you can probably comprehend
the technical language used in the following:
Skeletal Muscle Lipid Metabolism in Exercise and Insulin Resistance -
http://physrev.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/86/1/205

Take a look at the outline at the beginning of the article. Also look at
the references and citing articles. For instance, Regulation of
5'AMP-activated protein kinase activity and substrate utilization in
exercising human skeletal muscle -
http://ajpendo.physiology.org/cgi/co...ull/284/4/E813 and a
subsequent citing article: Acute exercise increases triglyceride
synthesis in skeletal muscle and prevents fatty acid–induced insulin
resistance - http://www.jci.org/117/6/1690.

Muscles in the arms while not as large as those in the legs can move
proportionately more glucose.

At age 72 and too much joint pain, I can't give you much anecdotal info.
I did my best when riding a bicycle 7 to 9 miles nearly daily.

Frank

  #9  
Old January 16th 08, 12:33 PM posted to misc.fitness.weights,alt.support.diabetes
Chris Malcolm
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Posts: 321
Default Muscle building, nutrient timing for diabetics

In alt.support.diabetes wrote:
On Jan 14, 11:49 am, " wrote:
Whey protein will spike insulin without the bg probelms.( in normal
folks anyway)
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/494021

Thanks! Excellent article; answered a lot of my questions.


Though I was a little puzzled by the statement "Carbohydrate-
containing foods are listed as advantageous over other food groups, in
particular for diabetic and glucose-intolerant individuals, because
they induce low glycemic responses."


It's just a more extreme form of the popular misconception that
complex carbohydrates must necessarily have a lower glycemic index
than simpler ones. The idea is that sugar in food can pass stright
trough into sugar in the blood, whereas a carbohydrate will have to be
digested and converted to sugar first, which "obviously" must take
longer. Many nutritionists who have been trained rather than educated
believe that, just as some of them don't realise that sugar is a
carbohydrate :-)

--
Chris Malcolm DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[
http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]

 




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