A Fitness & exercise forum. FitnessBanter.com

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

Go Back   Home » FitnessBanter.com forum » Fitness & Exercise » Weights
Site Map Home Register Authors List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read Web Partners

"jones" can't make up its mind (such a tiny thing; shouldn't be hardto make up)



 
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old February 24th 08, 01:57 PM posted to alt.food.vegan,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,sci.med.nutrition,rec.running,misc.fitness.weights
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 8
Default "jones" can't make up its mind (such a tiny thing; shouldn't behard to make up)

On Feb 23, 4:50 pm, "Jones" wrote:
"Derek" wrote in message

...



On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 21:32:34 -0000, "Jones" wrote:
"Derek" wrote in message
. ..
On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 21:13:08 -0000, "Jones" wrote:
"Derek" wrote in message
m...
On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 21:02:35 -0000, "Jones" wrote:
"Derek" wrote in message
news:[email protected] com...
On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 12:11:16 -0800, Rudy Canoza
wrote:


I said of "vegans" that after they're pushed off their
false claim to be "minimizing" harm to animals, they
fall back to a weaker claim of "doing the best I can."
To that, "jones" said:


That's exactly what we all do --- the best we can.
http://tinyurl.com/yv8a9c


Then I elaborated on exactly why "vegan" aren't doing
the best they can at reducing animal harm caused by the
things they consume, and to that "jones" replied:


None of us are. We could all do more.
http://tinyurl.com/2mxunq


Pretty funny! This guy clearly isn't trying to be
serious; just another usenet jerk-off.


Now, ask yourself, would I make a mistake like that?


I don't think it's a mistake. We all say we're doing the best we can but in
reality
none of us actually are.


Then, in reality you were mistaken when making your first claim
and wrong to assert it if you don't actually believe it.


Maybe I should have pointed out at the time that though we all say we're doing
the
best we can, in reality we aren't.


That would've helped. What's being asked for here
is "moral heroism" rather than a demand that vegans
abide by the rule not to kill animals collaterally during
crop production, and Singer describes it rather well.


[What grounds are there for accepting the acts and
omissions doctrine? Few champion the doctrine for
its own sake, as an important ethical first principle.
It is, rather, an implication of one view of ethics, of
a view that holds that as long as we do not violate
specified moral rules that place determinate moral
obligations upon us, we do all that morality demands
of us. These rules are of the kind made familiar by
the Ten Commandments and similar moral codes:
Do not kill, Do not lie, Do not steal, and so on.
Characteristically they are formulated in the negative,
so that to obey them it is necessary only to abstain
from the actions they prohibit. Hence obedience can
be demanded of every member of the community.


An ethic consisting of specific duties, prescribed by
moral rules that everyone can be expected to obey,
must make a sharp moral distinction between acts
and omissions. Take, for example, the rule: 'Do not
kill.' If this rule is interpreted, as it has been in the
Western tradition, as prohibiting only the taking of
innocent human life, it is not too difficult to avoid
overt acts in violation of it. Few of us are murderers.
It is not so easy to avoid letting innocent humans die.
Many people die because of insufficient food, or poor
medical facilities. If we could assist some of them, but
do not do so, we are letting them die. Taking the rule
against killing to apply to omissions would make living
in accordance with it a mark of saintliness or moral
heroism, rather than a minimum required of every
morally decent person.]


I don't agree with Singer on most of his arguments, but
I find this one agreeable.


I'm right then. Rudy is setting one standard for vegans that involves moral heroism
and another standard for himself that doesn't. Do you agree?


Yes, I do. If you understand and empathize with vegans, why
do you continue to eat meat?


I'm a strength athlete and have to eat large amounts of protein. I carb up during the
winter and restrict them to a minimum (down to 25grams per day) to turn my body into
a fat eater to look good in the summer. I can't do that without eating large amounts
of lean meat and fish. Have you tried going without carbs and going to the gym? When
you eat your brain releases chemicals into your body which forces it to look for
carbs. If no carbs are present you body will eat the fat instead. It's very tiring at
first but you soon get used to it.


Sounds reasonable. Someone said that if you fast for three days, you
get hunger pangs, but if you persist in not eating, your hunger pangs
stops and your body switch to your body fat. It is not until 40 days
is when you can honestly say you are starving. I never tried that
tho, but I won't be above trying 3 days at least.
  #22  
Old February 24th 08, 03:21 PM posted to alt.food.vegan,alt.animals.ethics.vegetarian,sci.med.nutrition,rec.running,misc.fitness.weights
Jones
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 64
Default "jones" can't make up its mind (such a tiny thing; shouldn't be hard to make up)


wrote in message
...
On Feb 23, 4:50 pm, "Jones" wrote:
"Derek" wrote in message

...



On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 21:32:34 -0000, "Jones" wrote:
"Derek" wrote in message
. ..
On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 21:13:08 -0000, "Jones" wrote:
"Derek" wrote in message
m...
On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 21:02:35 -0000, "Jones" wrote:
"Derek" wrote in message
news:[email protected] com...
On Sat, 23 Feb 2008 12:11:16 -0800, Rudy Canoza

wrote:


I said of "vegans" that after they're pushed off their
false claim to be "minimizing" harm to animals, they
fall back to a weaker claim of "doing the best I can."
To that, "jones" said:


That's exactly what we all do --- the best we can.
http://tinyurl.com/yv8a9c


Then I elaborated on exactly why "vegan" aren't doing
the best they can at reducing animal harm caused by the
things they consume, and to that "jones" replied:


None of us are. We could all do more.
http://tinyurl.com/2mxunq


Pretty funny! This guy clearly isn't trying to be
serious; just another usenet jerk-off.


Now, ask yourself, would I make a mistake like that?


I don't think it's a mistake. We all say we're doing the best we can but in
reality
none of us actually are.


Then, in reality you were mistaken when making your first claim
and wrong to assert it if you don't actually believe it.


Maybe I should have pointed out at the time that though we all say we're doing
the
best we can, in reality we aren't.


That would've helped. What's being asked for here
is "moral heroism" rather than a demand that vegans
abide by the rule not to kill animals collaterally during
crop production, and Singer describes it rather well.


[What grounds are there for accepting the acts and
omissions doctrine? Few champion the doctrine for
its own sake, as an important ethical first principle.
It is, rather, an implication of one view of ethics, of
a view that holds that as long as we do not violate
specified moral rules that place determinate moral
obligations upon us, we do all that morality demands
of us. These rules are of the kind made familiar by
the Ten Commandments and similar moral codes:
Do not kill, Do not lie, Do not steal, and so on.
Characteristically they are formulated in the negative,
so that to obey them it is necessary only to abstain
from the actions they prohibit. Hence obedience can
be demanded of every member of the community.


An ethic consisting of specific duties, prescribed by
moral rules that everyone can be expected to obey,
must make a sharp moral distinction between acts
and omissions. Take, for example, the rule: 'Do not
kill.' If this rule is interpreted, as it has been in the
Western tradition, as prohibiting only the taking of
innocent human life, it is not too difficult to avoid
overt acts in violation of it. Few of us are murderers.
It is not so easy to avoid letting innocent humans die.
Many people die because of insufficient food, or poor
medical facilities. If we could assist some of them, but
do not do so, we are letting them die. Taking the rule
against killing to apply to omissions would make living
in accordance with it a mark of saintliness or moral
heroism, rather than a minimum required of every
morally decent person.]


I don't agree with Singer on most of his arguments, but
I find this one agreeable.


I'm right then. Rudy is setting one standard for vegans that involves moral
heroism
and another standard for himself that doesn't. Do you agree?


Yes, I do. If you understand and empathize with vegans, why
do you continue to eat meat?


I'm a strength athlete and have to eat large amounts of protein. I carb up during
the
winter and restrict them to a minimum (down to 25grams per day) to turn my body
into
a fat eater to look good in the summer. I can't do that without eating large
amounts
of lean meat and fish. Have you tried going without carbs and going to the gym?
When
you eat your brain releases chemicals into your body which forces it to look for
carbs. If no carbs are present you body will eat the fat instead. It's very tiring
at
first but you soon get used to it.


Sounds reasonable. Someone said that if you fast for three days, you
get hunger pangs, but if you persist in not eating, your hunger pangs
stops and your body switch to your body fat. It is not until 40 days
is when you can honestly say you are starving. I never tried that
tho, but I won't be above trying 3 days at least.


When I carb down to 25grams a day, after about 2 weeks my body switches from being a
carb eater into a fat eater. I use lipolysis testing strips to measure the keytones
in my urine to confirm that I'm burning off my excess fat when they turn from pink to
dark purple. During this time I can eat as much meat and cheese as I want and still
lose the fat even if I don't work out because meat and cheese contains no carbs at
all. I can't do this on a vegetarian diet because of the carbs in vegetables and
fruit. An apple contains about 13 grams of carbs and if I eat 2 a day my body will no
longer be in a state of lipolysis and the fat doesn't get burned off. I can burn off
up to 10lbs of fat a week using this method. It's hell to start with because the lack
of carbs leave me exhausted but I soon get used to it and find all the energy I need
from my body fat. I wouldn't recommend everyone use it to lose weight but it works
well for me.


 




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
" Microsoft Bill Gates comments on Agloco as the NEXT BIG thing !! " biznis Weights 1 May 8th 07 05:00 PM
" Microsoft Bill Gates comments on Agloco as the NEXT BIG thing !! " biznis Running 1 May 8th 07 03:51 PM
There is a video out I saw called "Loose Change" blew me away..google it, also "Hijacking Catastrophe"..tells all [email protected] Weights 0 April 29th 07 04:58 AM
is there any thing like "handheld calorimeter"? nishanth Running 2 February 19th 06 08:15 PM
Lets dispose of this "karma thing" once and for all. David Weights 3 December 14th 05 03:53 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 08:42 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2004-2018 FitnessBanter.com.
The comments are property of their posters.