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Trophy Mongering (rant)



 
 
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  #1  
Old November 3rd 03, 04:27 AM
Hoff
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Posts: n/a
Default Trophy Mongering (rant)

First, let me say I love the AAU. The people I've met, officials, meet
directors, etc., have all been great.

But the number of different classes offered is almost absurd, and it
cheapens the whole results.

For example, why do people do two or three crossovers? Especially when they
are the only person in the class to begin with. Do they feel like walking
away from a meet with 4 trophies is more impressive somehow?

I was reminded of this reading posts over on the Dragondoor forum. "Garm"
posted his results from this weekends AAU meet. Barbara always runs a
regular meet alongside the World meet, the Richmond International, for
anyone who didn't qualify for the Worlds.

So "Garm" enters both, 2 classes each. 319 raw Masters and Lifetime
Masters, in both meets. Posts a total that wouldn't have won MY class, 165
raw masters. But walks away with 4 trophies, two of them first place,
because he found classes that didn't have anyone else in them.

And he's not the only one, by far. A woman on Friday did the same thing,
only she was the only one in ALL of the classes she entered. And I think I
saw one guy entered in FIVE different classes, all in the World Meet. Open,
Lifetime Open, Law/Fire/Mil Open, Masters and Lifetime Masters. Hell, he
even missed one, Law/Fire/Mil Masters. Or maybe it was a misprint

I just don't understand the thinking. Hell, Sharon got so ****ed when she
found out no one else was in her class. And then you see people entering
crossover after crossover, trying to ensure they find a class with no
competition. Do they honestly feel they can call themselves a "World
Champion"? Or call themselves a "World Record" holder, just because they
found some niche class combination that nobody bothered to lift in before?
Sharon won't even refer to herself as a "World Champion", just because this
IS the AAU. And while we both think the AAU is great, there's no doubt that
the top competition just isn't there.

Okay, end of rant. I suppose if people want to fill trophy cases to impress
their friends, more power to them. I'm sure the meet directors love the
extra cash flow. But all the same, I feel like pointing them towards the
local trophy shop. I'm sure they can buy a lot mor trophies, for much
cheaper than the $35 crossover fee.

Hoff
--
Learn it. Know it. Live it.

http://home.comcast.net/~mfw/
(Unofficial FAQ Addendum)


  #2  
Old November 3rd 03, 01:38 PM
Kirk Roy
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Trophy Mongering (rant)

Hoff wrote:
First, let me say I love the AAU. The people I've met, officials, meet
directors, etc., have all been great.

But the number of different classes offered is almost absurd, and it
cheapens the whole results.

For example, why do people do two or three crossovers? Especially when they
are the only person in the class to begin with. Do they feel like walking
away from a meet with 4 trophies is more impressive somehow?


I agree completely. I have been just entering straight Open class (in the
APA I'm eligible for Submasters). I won't value the awards I've gotten
until they really mean something.

I was reminded of this reading posts over on the Dragondoor forum. "Garm"
posted his results from this weekends AAU meet. Barbara always runs a
regular meet alongside the World meet, the Richmond International, for
anyone who didn't qualify for the Worlds.

So "Garm" enters both, 2 classes each. 319 raw Masters and Lifetime
Masters, in both meets. Posts a total that wouldn't have won MY class, 165
raw masters. But walks away with 4 trophies, two of them first place,
because he found classes that didn't have anyone else in them.


Yeah, I didn't realize he was lifting so little. Shoot, I hope to get a
higher total in my next meet...

Do they honestly feel they can call themselves a "World
Champion"? Or call themselves a "World Record" holder, just because they
found some niche class combination that nobody bothered to lift in before?
Sharon won't even refer to herself as a "World Champion", just because this
IS the AAU. And while we both think the AAU is great, there's no doubt that
the top competition just isn't there.


Yep, seems to me you need an IPF world record to really make that claim...
Nonetheless, there are some really good middle weight raw lifters in the
AAU.

Kirk
  #3  
Old November 3rd 03, 01:44 PM
Will
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Trophy Mongering (rant)

In article [email protected]_s53,
"Hoff" wrote:

First, let me say I love the AAU. The people I've met, officials, meet
directors, etc., have all been great.

But the number of different classes offered is almost absurd, and it
cheapens the whole results.

For example, why do people do two or three crossovers? Especially when they
are the only person in the class to begin with. Do they feel like walking
away from a meet with 4 trophies is more impressive somehow?


This is a little absurd, but at least it doesn't really negatively
effect the other lifters. What I find most annoying about this
situation is how many people are attempting to set "world records" in
some class or other. Then you get almost all the lifters taking a
fourth attempt on each lift, and the meet drags on forever.
  #4  
Old November 3rd 03, 02:00 PM
Keith Hobman
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Trophy Mongering (rant)

In article [email protected]_s53, "Hoff"
wrote:

First, let me say I love the AAU. The people I've met, officials, meet
directors, etc., have all been great.

But the number of different classes offered is almost absurd, and it
cheapens the whole results.

For example, why do people do two or three crossovers? Especially when they
are the only person in the class to begin with. Do they feel like walking
away from a meet with 4 trophies is more impressive somehow?

I was reminded of this reading posts over on the Dragondoor forum. "Garm"
posted his results from this weekends AAU meet. Barbara always runs a
regular meet alongside the World meet, the Richmond International, for
anyone who didn't qualify for the Worlds.

So "Garm" enters both, 2 classes each. 319 raw Masters and Lifetime
Masters, in both meets. Posts a total that wouldn't have won MY class, 165
raw masters. But walks away with 4 trophies, two of them first place,
because he found classes that didn't have anyone else in them.

And he's not the only one, by far. A woman on Friday did the same thing,
only she was the only one in ALL of the classes she entered. And I think I
saw one guy entered in FIVE different classes, all in the World Meet. Open,
Lifetime Open, Law/Fire/Mil Open, Masters and Lifetime Masters. Hell, he
even missed one, Law/Fire/Mil Masters. Or maybe it was a misprint

I just don't understand the thinking. Hell, Sharon got so ****ed when she
found out no one else was in her class. And then you see people entering
crossover after crossover, trying to ensure they find a class with no
competition. Do they honestly feel they can call themselves a "World
Champion"? Or call themselves a "World Record" holder, just because they
found some niche class combination that nobody bothered to lift in before?
Sharon won't even refer to herself as a "World Champion", just because this
IS the AAU. And while we both think the AAU is great, there's no doubt that
the top competition just isn't there.

Okay, end of rant. I suppose if people want to fill trophy cases to impress
their friends, more power to them. I'm sure the meet directors love the
extra cash flow. But all the same, I feel like pointing them towards the
local trophy shop. I'm sure they can buy a lot mor trophies, for much
cheaper than the $35 crossover fee.


IMO...

The only trophies should be for top 3 lifters. By Wilkes.

Mebbes some medallions or certificates for the rest. It goes beyond
ridiculous, all the classes and trophies.

--
Keith Hobman

--- email address above is a non-monitored spam sink.
  #5  
Old November 3rd 03, 02:32 PM
Hoff
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Trophy Mongering (rant)

"Kirk Roy" wrote in message
...
Hoff wrote:
First, let me say I love the AAU. The people I've met, officials, meet
directors, etc., have all been great.

But the number of different classes offered is almost absurd, and it
cheapens the whole results.

For example, why do people do two or three crossovers? Especially when

they
are the only person in the class to begin with. Do they feel like

walking
away from a meet with 4 trophies is more impressive somehow?


I agree completely. I have been just entering straight Open class (in the
APA I'm eligible for Submasters). I won't value the awards I've gotten
until they really mean something.

I was reminded of this reading posts over on the Dragondoor forum.

"Garm"
posted his results from this weekends AAU meet. Barbara always runs a
regular meet alongside the World meet, the Richmond International, for
anyone who didn't qualify for the Worlds.

So "Garm" enters both, 2 classes each. 319 raw Masters and Lifetime
Masters, in both meets. Posts a total that wouldn't have won MY class,

165
raw masters. But walks away with 4 trophies, two of them first place,
because he found classes that didn't have anyone else in them.


Yeah, I didn't realize he was lifting so little. Shoot, I hope to get a
higher total in my next meet...

Do they honestly feel they can call themselves a "World
Champion"? Or call themselves a "World Record" holder, just because

they
found some niche class combination that nobody bothered to lift in

before?
Sharon won't even refer to herself as a "World Champion", just because

this
IS the AAU. And while we both think the AAU is great, there's no doubt

that
the top competition just isn't there.


Yep, seems to me you need an IPF world record to really make that claim...
Nonetheless, there are some really good middle weight raw lifters in the
AAU.


I agree. The dude who won my class, 165 raw masters, totalled well over
1300, I believe.

And I don't want to look like I'm knocking anyone's numbers. Hell, all
anyone has to do is look at MY pathetic numbers to know I have no room to
talk.

By the same token, I just don't think it's "right" somehow, for someone to
lose in a main class, but call themselves a "World Champion" just because
nobody else bothered to pay a crossover fee to get into the
Lifetime/Law/Dogcatcher class.

Hoff

Kirk



  #6  
Old November 3rd 03, 02:40 PM
Hoff
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Trophy Mongering (rant)

"Will" wrote in message
...
In article [email protected]_s53,
"Hoff" wrote:

First, let me say I love the AAU. The people I've met, officials, meet
directors, etc., have all been great.

But the number of different classes offered is almost absurd, and it
cheapens the whole results.

For example, why do people do two or three crossovers? Especially when

they
are the only person in the class to begin with. Do they feel like

walking
away from a meet with 4 trophies is more impressive somehow?


This is a little absurd, but at least it doesn't really negatively
effect the other lifters.


I guess I don't agree. I think it degrades the whole process, and takes
away from those who legitimately deserve the recognition.

You can have an Open class with maybe 7-8 lifters. And the number 8
finisher can still walk away with a "1st Place" trophy, because nobody else
bothered to fork over the $35 to enter the "Lifetime" Open class.

I guess I'd just have a hard time walking up to accept a "Championship",
when the guys right before me that got 2nd, 3rd and 4th, all beat my total.

What I find most annoying about this
situation is how many people are attempting to set "world records" in
some class or other. Then you get almost all the lifters taking a
fourth attempt on each lift, and the meet drags on forever.


Tell me about it. They might as well have just given everyone 4th attempts
the whole weekend, and be done with it.

Hoff


  #7  
Old November 3rd 03, 03:02 PM
Wayne S. Hill
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Trophy Mongering (rant)

Hoff wrote:

snip reasonable rant

Okay, end of rant. I suppose if people want to fill trophy
cases to impress their friends, more power to them. I'm
sure the meet directors love the extra cash flow. But all
the same, I feel like pointing them towards the local trophy
shop. I'm sure they can buy a lot mor trophies, for much
cheaper than the $35 crossover fee.


In highland games, there may be quite a few classes at some
competitions, but you can only compete in one class.

Here in New England, we generally have very few classes. In most
games, we have amateurs, masters, and women, all throwing somewhat
different weights. Although some compete to win events or their
class overall, I don't know anyone who competes for the awards.

--
-Wayne
  #8  
Old November 3rd 03, 03:40 PM
John HUDSON
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Trophy Mongering (rant)

On Mon, 03 Nov 2003 14:40:30 GMT, "Hoff"
wrote:

"Will" wrote in message
...
In article [email protected]_s53,
"Hoff" wrote:

First, let me say I love the AAU. The people I've met, officials, meet
directors, etc., have all been great.

But the number of different classes offered is almost absurd, and it
cheapens the whole results.

For example, why do people do two or three crossovers? Especially when

they
are the only person in the class to begin with. Do they feel like

walking
away from a meet with 4 trophies is more impressive somehow?


This is a little absurd, but at least it doesn't really negatively
effect the other lifters.


I guess I don't agree. I think it degrades the whole process, and takes
away from those who legitimately deserve the recognition.

You can have an Open class with maybe 7-8 lifters. And the number 8
finisher can still walk away with a "1st Place" trophy, because nobody else
bothered to fork over the $35 to enter the "Lifetime" Open class.

I guess I'd just have a hard time walking up to accept a "Championship",
when the guys right before me that got 2nd, 3rd and 4th, all beat my total.

What I find most annoying about this
situation is how many people are attempting to set "world records" in
some class or other. Then you get almost all the lifters taking a
fourth attempt on each lift, and the meet drags on forever.


Tell me about it. They might as well have just given everyone 4th attempts
the whole weekend, and be done with it.


I agree with you that it is galling to see mediocre performers
collecting meaningless awards. They are called 'pot-hunters' in the UK
and it is a practice prevalent in most sports, particularly at juniors
level, where proud parents expect their pride and joy to win something
if they enter a competition.

The organisers pander to this section of the population in an effort
to raise the profile of their particular sport, and to get more
competitors in order to establish a broader base and increase income.
The spin-off is that for every competitor there is at least two
parents, plus a heap of other family and friends, which all helps to
sell more refreshments and boost the sales of other concessions.


  #9  
Old November 3rd 03, 04:17 PM
Steve Freides
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Trophy Mongering (rant)

Hoff wrote:

First, let me say I love the AAU. The people I've met, officials, meet
directors, etc., have all been great.

But the number of different classes offered is almost absurd, and it
cheapens the whole results.


One thing I've heard mentioned is that having so many classes is part of
what attracts people to the sport - and the sport *needs* participants.
The large number of categories means more chances to win and people are
more likely to attend if they feel they have a chance of winning
something.

For me, I know I've found it frustrating when it's worked in the
opposite direction, e.g., at a local 5k road race one year my
performance was ninth in my age group, 40-49 male, but it would have won
several other categories below me in age. Given that there are so many
men my age competing in local road races, I feel *more* categories, not
fewer, are in order there. There were separate awards for 20-24 and
25-29, one of which didn't even have 3 people in it to get all the
ribbons they were handing out!

There's no such thing as a free lunch when it comes to something like
this. Best to trust the organizers of your sport or, if you feel
strongly and are willing to devote the time, become one of those
organizers. At the recent kettlebell meet I attended, the organizers
looked at the number of people, which was small, and redid the
categories on the spot. I ended up competing against guys younger and
heavier than me but such is life - their meet, their rules.

-S-
  #10  
Old November 3rd 03, 04:48 PM
Hoff
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Trophy Mongering (rant)

"Steve Freides" wrote in message
...
Hoff wrote:

First, let me say I love the AAU. The people I've met, officials, meet
directors, etc., have all been great.

But the number of different classes offered is almost absurd, and it
cheapens the whole results.


One thing I've heard mentioned is that having so many classes is part of
what attracts people to the sport - and the sport *needs* participants.
The large number of categories means more chances to win and people are
more likely to attend if they feel they have a chance of winning
something.


Seriously, then give some sort of "participation" certificate, medallion, or
hell, even trophy.

Because that's what it boils down to. They aren't "winning" anything,
they're just finding an empty class.


For me, I know I've found it frustrating when it's worked in the
opposite direction, e.g., at a local 5k road race one year my
performance was ninth in my age group, 40-49 male, but it would have won
several other categories below me in age. Given that there are so many
men my age competing in local road races, I feel *more* categories, not
fewer, are in order there. There were separate awards for 20-24 and
25-29, one of which didn't even have 3 people in it to get all the
ribbons they were handing out!


See, I guess we differ. My take would be to get rid of the excess younger
categories, not increase the number of older ones.

In other words, if I win, I want it to mean something. Not that they
increased categories to a finite enough level that I came out on top.


There's no such thing as a free lunch when it comes to something like
this.


Well, that's essentially what it is, yes. People search out empty classes,
or enter as many different ones as possible, in hopes of finding one they
can win, or have no competition in. Or they find classes that have had
little or in some cases no entries in the past, so they can call themselves
"World Record" holders.

For example, there are no AAU raw Lifetime Open World Records at the moment
in the 165 class. No one has ever bothered to enter. I could have entered
that class, set every "World Record", and been taking fourth attempts, all
the while getting the snot beat out of me by everyone else in my real class
of 165 raw masters.

Would that have *really* made me a "World Champion" and "World Record"
holder?

Best to trust the organizers of your sport or, if you feel
strongly and are willing to devote the time, become one of those
organizers.


I sat with a few of the organizers and officials during the awards ceremony
Friday night. For the most part, they were in complete agreement.

Hoff


 




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