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  #1  
Old February 8th 04, 09:28 AM
Steve
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Posts: n/a
Default Weight loss

I've been doing cardio and weights to loose weight and tone-up.
I'm finding that the more weights I do, the less body weight I loose.
I'm not doing like hours per day on weights and am not noticeably more
muscular, but would even a small amount of weight work (say, 40 minutes
three times a week) counter-affect the cardio/diet?

Thanks,

Steve


  #2  
Old February 8th 04, 05:54 PM
Joe User
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Default Weight loss

"Steve" wrote:
I've been doing cardio and weights to loose weight and tone-up.
I'm finding that the more weights I do, the less body weight I loose.


That might be a good thing. The devil is in the details.

I'm not doing like hours per day on weights and am not noticeably more
muscular, but would even a small amount of weight work (say, 40 minutes
three times a week) counter-affect the cardio/diet?


You seem to misunderstand the overall goals.

In general, the goal is not to reduce total body weight --
although that might be desirable in some unusual cases.

The goal is to reduce excess body fat. Measure your percent body
fat and multiply by your weight. That is your fat weight. Over
time, you want to reduce fat weight. That will result in a
decrease of your percent body fat.

Increasing muscle mass helps to reduce body fat, since active
muscle burns fat. But since muscle weighs much more than fat,
it is possible tp lose the desired amount of fat, but to offset
the fat weight loss by increased muscle weight. That is a good
thing.

PS: That is why I believe that BMI is poor indicator of fat
excess. It is merely a "first approximation" -- but personally,
BMI tells me nothing I cannot see with my own eyes. You need
to use more direct measures of percent body fat. Opinions vary
widely on what are the better, cost-effective direct methods.

But bear in mind: all methods can be done incorrectly. The
key is to use the same method, use it in a consistent manner,
and focus on change, not so much the absolute number.
  #3  
Old February 9th 04, 12:46 AM
Proctologically Violated©®
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Posts: n/a
Default Weight loss



--
"Joe User" wrote in message
m...
"Steve" wrote:
I've been doing cardio and weights to loose weight and tone-up.
I'm finding that the more weights I do, the less body weight I loose.


That might be a good thing. The devil is in the details.

I'm not doing like hours per day on weights and am not noticeably more
muscular, but would even a small amount of weight work (say, 40 minutes
three times a week) counter-affect the cardio/diet?


You seem to misunderstand the overall goals.

In general, the goal is not to reduce total body weight --
although that might be desirable in some unusual cases.

The goal is to reduce excess body fat. Measure your percent body
fat and multiply by your weight. That is your fat weight. Over
time, you want to reduce fat weight. That will result in a
decrease of your percent body fat.

Increasing muscle mass helps to reduce body fat, since active
muscle burns fat. But since muscle weighs much more than fat,
it is possible tp lose the desired amount of fat, but to offset
the fat weight loss by increased muscle weight. That is a good
thing.

PS: That is why I believe that BMI is poor indicator of fat
excess. It is merely a "first approximation" -- but personally,
BMI tells me nothing I cannot see with my own eyes. You need
to use more direct measures of percent body fat. Opinions vary
widely on what are the better, cost-effective direct methods.

But bear in mind: all methods can be done incorrectly. The
key is to use the same method, use it in a consistent manner,
and focus on change, not so much the absolute number.


An excellent overall response, to which I would like to add/clarify
a point or two.
If the OP is reporting correctly, he demonstrates the fate of all
people who DO NOT lift weights: They necessarily and obligatorily *lose
muscle* in the weight loss effort, at a rate more than TWICE that of fat
loss, for two reasons, unbeknownst to most people:
First, the body *preferentially* sheds muscle over fat, *if it can*.
Lifting weight says to the body You Can't!
Second, if allowed to shed muscle tissue, the body does so at more
than twice the rate of fat, by dint of the 4 cal protein to 9 cal fat per
gram.
Thus, most weight loss, at least initially, is water, muscle,
glycogen--very little fat. Fat is lost at a very slow rate. It is also
gained at a slow rate! Which is why you can lose 10 lbs right quick, but
nothing after that. And usually you gain that back! The trick is slow,
consistent fat loss.

Next, I would suggest avoiding all body fat measurement, as few
people are in a position to do it correctly enough to get even a valid
relative measurement.
Plus, BF% is the dependent variable in this whole process, not the
independent variable, which you can vary willy nilly. The ind. variables
are, basically, exercise amounts and caloric intake. The body fat will be
whatever it will be as a result, and this varies widely from person to
person.
Fat is not a big issue.
Fitness is.
Work on the fitness with intelligent dietary intake; let the other
chips fall as they may.
I see a person with ripped abs and I just brace myself for the
emotional equivalent of an aggressive used car salesmen--just spare me.
----------------------------
Mr. P.V.'d
formerly Droll Troll


  #4  
Old February 9th 04, 09:47 AM
Steve
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Weight loss

Many thanks to Joe and Mr. P for thorough and understandable replies. Your
input is very much appreciated.

Thanks again,

Steve

"Proctologically Violated©®" wrote in message
...


--
"Joe User" wrote in message
m...
"Steve" wrote:
I've been doing cardio and weights to loose weight and tone-up.
I'm finding that the more weights I do, the less body weight I loose.


That might be a good thing. The devil is in the details.

I'm not doing like hours per day on weights and am not noticeably more
muscular, but would even a small amount of weight work (say, 40

minutes
three times a week) counter-affect the cardio/diet?


You seem to misunderstand the overall goals.

In general, the goal is not to reduce total body weight --
although that might be desirable in some unusual cases.

The goal is to reduce excess body fat. Measure your percent body
fat and multiply by your weight. That is your fat weight. Over
time, you want to reduce fat weight. That will result in a
decrease of your percent body fat.

Increasing muscle mass helps to reduce body fat, since active
muscle burns fat. But since muscle weighs much more than fat,
it is possible tp lose the desired amount of fat, but to offset
the fat weight loss by increased muscle weight. That is a good
thing.

PS: That is why I believe that BMI is poor indicator of fat
excess. It is merely a "first approximation" -- but personally,
BMI tells me nothing I cannot see with my own eyes. You need
to use more direct measures of percent body fat. Opinions vary
widely on what are the better, cost-effective direct methods.

But bear in mind: all methods can be done incorrectly. The
key is to use the same method, use it in a consistent manner,
and focus on change, not so much the absolute number.


An excellent overall response, to which I would like to

add/clarify
a point or two.
If the OP is reporting correctly, he demonstrates the fate of all
people who DO NOT lift weights: They necessarily and obligatorily *lose
muscle* in the weight loss effort, at a rate more than TWICE that of fat
loss, for two reasons, unbeknownst to most people:
First, the body *preferentially* sheds muscle over fat, *if it

can*.
Lifting weight says to the body You Can't!
Second, if allowed to shed muscle tissue, the body does so at more
than twice the rate of fat, by dint of the 4 cal protein to 9 cal fat per
gram.
Thus, most weight loss, at least initially, is water, muscle,
glycogen--very little fat. Fat is lost at a very slow rate. It is also
gained at a slow rate! Which is why you can lose 10 lbs right quick, but
nothing after that. And usually you gain that back! The trick is slow,
consistent fat loss.

Next, I would suggest avoiding all body fat measurement, as few
people are in a position to do it correctly enough to get even a valid
relative measurement.
Plus, BF% is the dependent variable in this whole process, not

the
independent variable, which you can vary willy nilly. The ind. variables
are, basically, exercise amounts and caloric intake. The body fat will be
whatever it will be as a result, and this varies widely from person to
person.
Fat is not a big issue.
Fitness is.
Work on the fitness with intelligent dietary intake; let the

other
chips fall as they may.
I see a person with ripped abs and I just brace myself for the
emotional equivalent of an aggressive used car salesmen--just spare me.
----------------------------
Mr. P.V.'d
formerly Droll Troll




  #5  
Old February 10th 04, 05:20 AM
Joe User
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Weight loss

"Proctologically Violated©®" wrote:
most weight loss, at least initially, is water, muscle,
glycogen--very little fat. [....] The trick is slow,
consistent fat loss.


I agree. But ....

Next, I would suggest avoiding all body fat measurement


I prefer to have an objective measure to demonstrate that I am,
indeed, losing fat, not water or muscle. I have seen too many
people lose mostly LBM and not realize it.

as few people are in a position to do it correctly enough to
get even a valid relative measurement.


If you are referring to caliper measurements, I wholeheartedly
agree with you. But I believe that BIA can be used correctly
and effectively, when the proper protocol is followed.

Fat is not a big issue.
Fitness is.
Work on the fitness with intelligent dietary intake; let the other
chips fall as they may.


I tend to agree. But "fitness" means so many different things to
different people. It is possible to be "fit" by some definitions,
but to have excess fat that is causing invisible problems.

I see no harm in setting fat-reduction goals -- along with other
goals. In my opinion, any measurable goal is good if it motivates
us to do the right thing -- reasonable exercise and dietary habits
that we can maintain life-long.

Of course, I am speaking of the 99% of us who have no athletic
-- or gubernatorial ;-) -- aspirations.
  #6  
Old February 10th 06, 04:52 AM posted to misc.fitness.aerobic
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Posts: n/a
Default Weight loss

Aerobics is the best method of losing weight plus cardio benefits.


"Steve" wrote in message
...
I've been doing cardio and weights to loose weight and tone-up.
I'm finding that the more weights I do, the less body weight I loose.

Thanks,

Steve




  #7  
Old February 10th 06, 10:20 AM posted to misc.fitness.aerobic
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Weight loss


"mush97" wrote in message
...
Aerobics is the best method of losing weight plus cardio benefits.


OK, I'm starting to see a pattern to your posts (besides the fact you don't
bother quoting the post you're replying to): your advice varies from
suspect to complete crap.


 




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