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Heart Related health question - decreasing heart rate during training dangerous?



 
 
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  #1  
Old March 30th 07, 02:45 AM posted to rec.sport.swimming
PT
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3
Default Heart Related health question - decreasing heart rate during training dangerous?

This question has probably been covered before in this forum, but I haven't
been able to find anything on it. Description is a bit long, but maybe some
detail
is necessary, here.

Today, I was swimming laps in an indoor lap pool (84 or 88 laps to 1 mi)
while
wearing a heart monitor. I'm 38, and do some form of cardio almost every
day,
usually more focused on sprint cardio, where the point is to get my heart
rate up to
about 180+ at least a couple of times. This is because I'm training for
sport grappling, and that's more an anaerobic type of activity.

Anyhow, today I swam straight crawl stroke. After about 20-30 laps with 3-4
second
rests at each end to switch directions, my bpm got up around 165-174, and
cruised, climbing gradually, until I hit somewhere around 85 or 90 laps. I
normally only
swim 30-50 laps total, because normally I focus on sprints. Today, I wanted
to see how many I could swim at an medium pace. At around 85 or 90 laps,
something strange started to happen. Just as I started to feel like some
significant
muscle fatigue was setting in, my pulse rate actually began to come down
very slowly,
maybe 1 bpm per lap, until it was down to 168 or so from 174-176.

This literally happened 1 bpm at a time, over 5 or 6 laps.

I didn't think too much of it at the time, assuming that what was happening
was that I
was finding my pace, where my body could recover a bit while still
continuing to swim. At lap 98, I turned up the intensity so that I could
finish lap 100 with my pulse hitting 184, and did that successfully without
problems (other than what seemed to be normal light headedness when I
stopped swimming and began stretching).

My question is this: is that gradual slowing of bpm that I experienced
around lap 85 or 90 something that I should regard as a possible warning
or danger sign? Is there a cardiac danger that is associated with something
like
that, a slowing of heartrate in the midst of consistent exertion?

Many thanks in advance for insight any may have to offer.


  #2  
Old March 30th 07, 03:35 AM posted to rec.sport.swimming
Micheal Artindale
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 38
Default Heart Related health question - decreasing heart rate during training dangerous?

Try to repeat everything, but do not concern yourself with bpm, only number
of laps, and speed. See if it happens again. If it doesnt, its a fluke. If
it does, next time you see a dr, ask them about it. Might be normal as i am
not an MD and i dont wear a heart meter.

Micheal


"PT" wrote in message
...
This question has probably been covered before in this forum, but I
haven't
been able to find anything on it. Description is a bit long, but maybe
some detail
is necessary, here.

Today, I was swimming laps in an indoor lap pool (84 or 88 laps to 1 mi)
while
wearing a heart monitor. I'm 38, and do some form of cardio almost every
day,
usually more focused on sprint cardio, where the point is to get my heart
rate up to
about 180+ at least a couple of times. This is because I'm training for
sport grappling, and that's more an anaerobic type of activity.

Anyhow, today I swam straight crawl stroke. After about 20-30 laps with
3-4 second
rests at each end to switch directions, my bpm got up around 165-174, and
cruised, climbing gradually, until I hit somewhere around 85 or 90 laps.
I normally only
swim 30-50 laps total, because normally I focus on sprints. Today, I
wanted
to see how many I could swim at an medium pace. At around 85 or 90 laps,
something strange started to happen. Just as I started to feel like some
significant
muscle fatigue was setting in, my pulse rate actually began to come down
very slowly,
maybe 1 bpm per lap, until it was down to 168 or so from 174-176.

This literally happened 1 bpm at a time, over 5 or 6 laps.

I didn't think too much of it at the time, assuming that what was
happening was that I
was finding my pace, where my body could recover a bit while still
continuing to swim. At lap 98, I turned up the intensity so that I could
finish lap 100 with my pulse hitting 184, and did that successfully
without
problems (other than what seemed to be normal light headedness when I
stopped swimming and began stretching).

My question is this: is that gradual slowing of bpm that I experienced
around lap 85 or 90 something that I should regard as a possible warning
or danger sign? Is there a cardiac danger that is associated with
something like
that, a slowing of heartrate in the midst of consistent exertion?

Many thanks in advance for insight any may have to offer.




  #3  
Old March 30th 07, 04:51 AM posted to rec.sport.swimming
Steve Freides
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,029
Default Heart Related health question - decreasing heart rate during training dangerous?

"PT" wrote in message
...
This question has probably been covered before in this forum, but I
haven't
been able to find anything on it. Description is a bit long, but
maybe some detail
is necessary, here.

Today, I was swimming laps in an indoor lap pool (84 or 88 laps to 1
mi) while
wearing a heart monitor. I'm 38, and do some form of cardio almost
every day,
usually more focused on sprint cardio, where the point is to get my
heart rate up to
about 180+ at least a couple of times. This is because I'm training
for
sport grappling, and that's more an anaerobic type of activity.

Anyhow, today I swam straight crawl stroke. After about 20-30 laps
with 3-4 second
rests at each end to switch directions, my bpm got up around 165-174,
and
cruised, climbing gradually, until I hit somewhere around 85 or 90
laps. I normally only
swim 30-50 laps total, because normally I focus on sprints. Today, I
wanted
to see how many I could swim at an medium pace. At around 85 or 90
laps,
something strange started to happen. Just as I started to feel like
some significant
muscle fatigue was setting in, my pulse rate actually began to come
down very slowly,
maybe 1 bpm per lap, until it was down to 168 or so from 174-176.

This literally happened 1 bpm at a time, over 5 or 6 laps.

I didn't think too much of it at the time, assuming that what was
happening was that I
was finding my pace, where my body could recover a bit while still
continuing to swim. At lap 98, I turned up the intensity so that I
could
finish lap 100 with my pulse hitting 184, and did that successfully
without
problems (other than what seemed to be normal light headedness when I
stopped swimming and began stretching).

My question is this: is that gradual slowing of bpm that I
experienced
around lap 85 or 90 something that I should regard as a possible
warning
or danger sign? Is there a cardiac danger that is associated with
something like
that, a slowing of heartrate in the midst of consistent exertion?

Many thanks in advance for insight any may have to offer.


First things first - ask your doctor. But best to ask a doctor who
specializes in sports medicine. Offhand, I'd say all that happened was
that you got tired and gradually reduced the level of your effort -
nothing odd about that, IMHO. You covered two or three _times_ the
distance you normally do - to expect your body to behave normally is
unrealistic. If you continue to train in this way, your body will
adapt, but you'll likely have to do it at least once every week or two
for some accommodation to take place.

Just my opinion - do check with your doctor.

-S-


  #4  
Old March 30th 07, 03:28 PM posted to rec.sport.swimming
[email protected]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 86
Default Heart Related health question - decreasing heart rate during training dangerous?

On Mar 29, 6:45 pm, "PT" wrote:
This question has probably been covered before in this forum, but I haven't
been able to find anything on it. Description is a bit long, but maybe some
detail
is necessary, here.

Today, I was swimming laps in an indoor lap pool (84 or 88 laps to 1 mi)
while
wearing a heart monitor. I'm 38, and do some form of cardio almost every
day,
usually more focused on sprint cardio, where the point is to get my heart
rate up to
about 180+ at least a couple of times. This is because I'm training for
sport grappling, and that's more an anaerobic type of activity.

Anyhow, today I swam straight crawl stroke. After about 20-30 laps with 3-4
second
rests at each end to switch directions, my bpm got up around 165-174, and
cruised, climbing gradually, until I hit somewhere around 85 or 90 laps. I
normally only
swim 30-50 laps total, because normally I focus on sprints. Today, I wanted
to see how many I could swim at an medium pace. At around 85 or 90 laps,
something strange started to happen. Just as I started to feel like some
significant
muscle fatigue was setting in, my pulse rate actually began to come down
very slowly,
maybe 1 bpm per lap, until it was down to 168 or so from 174-176.

This literally happened 1 bpm at a time, over 5 or 6 laps.

I didn't think too much of it at the time, assuming that what was happening
was that I
was finding my pace, where my body could recover a bit while still
continuing to swim. At lap 98, I turned up the intensity so that I could
finish lap 100 with my pulse hitting 184, and did that successfully without
problems (other than what seemed to be normal light headedness when I
stopped swimming and began stretching).

My question is this: is that gradual slowing of bpm that I experienced
around lap 85 or 90 something that I should regard as a possible warning
or danger sign? Is there a cardiac danger that is associated with something
like
that, a slowing of heartrate in the midst of consistent exertion?

Many thanks in advance for insight any may have to offer.



Like everyone says, ask Dr. who specializes in sports medicine.
However, there is nothing wrong with what you saw. I would assume that
you were at around your AT (aerobic threshhold). This is the limit
before your muscles produce more lactic acid that they can handle.
Mantaining your heart rate at AT (aerobic threshhold) is very
difficult. This is because as you start acummulating lactic acid,
which causes muscle fatigue and the sensation of burning, you start
slowing down and unless you make a tremendous effort to increase your
effort, your heart rate will keep dropping. Because your AT is your
limit before you go anaerobic and you have to stop, your body is
always asking to slow down, and hurting more and more. The type of
workout that you are doing is obviously designed to increase your AT
capacity, or the ability to reach the limit of your capacity for
maintaining your pain for as long as possible without having to stop.

Ideally, you want to work at increasing your AT and staying at the
limit of your suffering for as long as possible. You have exceeded
that edge once you get nausea and dry heaves, light headedness, etc.

If you know that your AT is about 174 and you see that your heart rate
starts going down, that means that you can push a little more to 174.
If you can't sustain 174 then your AT is slighlty lower. However, your
body is probably becoming adapted to handling more excertion at 174.
Because you were exceeding your previous distance, it is likley that
you felt more uncomfortable while your heart was able to handle the
load. So if your bpm starts comming down, you should be able to
increase your effort and still not go anaerobic until you reach 174.

Sometimes, no matter what you do, your heart rate won't go up. That is
because your body is becoming exhausted and you are starting to
overtrain. So, you need to back off. You should nor try to do AT
sessions on consecutive days.

I don't know if Larry Wisenthal is around, but he is a Dr. and knows a
lot more about this than I do. Maybe ha can give you better info.

Also, if you post in rec.sport.triathlon, there si a guy called Andy
Coggan who is a physiologist and knows a ton about this.

Andres

  #5  
Old March 30th 07, 04:02 PM posted to rec.sport.swimming
PT
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3
Default Heart Related health question - decreasing heart rate during training dangerous?

wrote in message
oups.com...
On Mar 29, 6:45 pm, "PT" wrote:
This question has probably been covered before in this forum, but I
haven't
been able to find anything on it. Description is a bit long, but maybe
some
detail
is necessary, here.

Today, I was swimming laps in an indoor lap pool (84 or 88 laps to 1 mi)
while
wearing a heart monitor. I'm 38, and do some form of cardio almost every
day,
usually more focused on sprint cardio, where the point is to get my heart
rate up to
about 180+ at least a couple of times. This is because I'm training for
sport grappling, and that's more an anaerobic type of activity.

Anyhow, today I swam straight crawl stroke. After about 20-30 laps with
3-4
second
rests at each end to switch directions, my bpm got up around 165-174, and
cruised, climbing gradually, until I hit somewhere around 85 or 90 laps.
I
normally only
swim 30-50 laps total, because normally I focus on sprints. Today, I
wanted
to see how many I could swim at an medium pace. At around 85 or 90 laps,
something strange started to happen. Just as I started to feel like some
significant
muscle fatigue was setting in, my pulse rate actually began to come down
very slowly,
maybe 1 bpm per lap, until it was down to 168 or so from 174-176.

This literally happened 1 bpm at a time, over 5 or 6 laps.

I didn't think too much of it at the time, assuming that what was
happening
was that I
was finding my pace, where my body could recover a bit while still
continuing to swim. At lap 98, I turned up the intensity so that I could
finish lap 100 with my pulse hitting 184, and did that successfully
without
problems (other than what seemed to be normal light headedness when I
stopped swimming and began stretching).

My question is this: is that gradual slowing of bpm that I experienced
around lap 85 or 90 something that I should regard as a possible warning
or danger sign? Is there a cardiac danger that is associated with
something
like
that, a slowing of heartrate in the midst of consistent exertion?

Many thanks in advance for insight any may have to offer.



Like everyone says, ask Dr. who specializes in sports medicine.
However, there is nothing wrong with what you saw. I would assume that
you were at around your AT (aerobic threshhold). This is the limit
before your muscles produce more lactic acid that they can handle.
Mantaining your heart rate at AT (aerobic threshhold) is very
difficult. This is because as you start acummulating lactic acid,
which causes muscle fatigue and the sensation of burning, you start
slowing down and unless you make a tremendous effort to increase your
effort, your heart rate will keep dropping. Because your AT is your
limit before you go anaerobic and you have to stop, your body is
always asking to slow down, and hurting more and more. The type of
workout that you are doing is obviously designed to increase your AT
capacity, or the ability to reach the limit of your capacity for
maintaining your pain for as long as possible without having to stop.

Ideally, you want to work at increasing your AT and staying at the
limit of your suffering for as long as possible. You have exceeded
that edge once you get nausea and dry heaves, light headedness, etc.

If you know that your AT is about 174 and you see that your heart rate
starts going down, that means that you can push a little more to 174.
If you can't sustain 174 then your AT is slighlty lower. However, your
body is probably becoming adapted to handling more excertion at 174.
Because you were exceeding your previous distance, it is likley that
you felt more uncomfortable while your heart was able to handle the
load. So if your bpm starts comming down, you should be able to
increase your effort and still not go anaerobic until you reach 174.

Sometimes, no matter what you do, your heart rate won't go up. That is
because your body is becoming exhausted and you are starting to
overtrain. So, you need to back off. You should nor try to do AT
sessions on consecutive days.

I don't know if Larry Wisenthal is around, but he is a Dr. and knows a
lot more about this than I do. Maybe ha can give you better info.

Also, if you post in rec.sport.triathlon, there si a guy called Andy
Coggan who is a physiologist and knows a ton about this.

Andres


Many thanks for the responses so far. Very very helpful. Please keep them
coming if anybody has anything to add.

I'll see about reposting to rec...triathlon - thanks Andres.


  #6  
Old April 26th 07, 01:40 AM posted to rec.sport.swimming
ilaboo
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 13
Default Heart Related health question - decreasing heart rate during training dangerous?

as a physician assistant --i am not sure what is going on here but sports
md evaluation is in order

hth

peter wrote in message
...
wrote in message
oups.com...
On Mar 29, 6:45 pm, "PT" wrote:
This question has probably been covered before in this forum, but I
haven't
been able to find anything on it. Description is a bit long, but maybe
some
detail
is necessary, here.

Today, I was swimming laps in an indoor lap pool (84 or 88 laps to 1 mi)
while
wearing a heart monitor. I'm 38, and do some form of cardio almost
every
day,
usually more focused on sprint cardio, where the point is to get my
heart
rate up to
about 180+ at least a couple of times. This is because I'm training for
sport grappling, and that's more an anaerobic type of activity.

Anyhow, today I swam straight crawl stroke. After about 20-30 laps with
3-4
second
rests at each end to switch directions, my bpm got up around 165-174,
and
cruised, climbing gradually, until I hit somewhere around 85 or 90 laps.
I
normally only
swim 30-50 laps total, because normally I focus on sprints. Today, I
wanted
to see how many I could swim at an medium pace. At around 85 or 90
laps,
something strange started to happen. Just as I started to feel like
some
significant
muscle fatigue was setting in, my pulse rate actually began to come down
very slowly,
maybe 1 bpm per lap, until it was down to 168 or so from 174-176.

This literally happened 1 bpm at a time, over 5 or 6 laps.

I didn't think too much of it at the time, assuming that what was
happening
was that I
was finding my pace, where my body could recover a bit while still
continuing to swim. At lap 98, I turned up the intensity so that I
could
finish lap 100 with my pulse hitting 184, and did that successfully
without
problems (other than what seemed to be normal light headedness when I
stopped swimming and began stretching).

My question is this: is that gradual slowing of bpm that I experienced
around lap 85 or 90 something that I should regard as a possible warning
or danger sign? Is there a cardiac danger that is associated with
something
like
that, a slowing of heartrate in the midst of consistent exertion?

Many thanks in advance for insight any may have to offer.



Like everyone says, ask Dr. who specializes in sports medicine.
However, there is nothing wrong with what you saw. I would assume that
you were at around your AT (aerobic threshhold). This is the limit
before your muscles produce more lactic acid that they can handle.
Mantaining your heart rate at AT (aerobic threshhold) is very
difficult. This is because as you start acummulating lactic acid,
which causes muscle fatigue and the sensation of burning, you start
slowing down and unless you make a tremendous effort to increase your
effort, your heart rate will keep dropping. Because your AT is your
limit before you go anaerobic and you have to stop, your body is
always asking to slow down, and hurting more and more. The type of
workout that you are doing is obviously designed to increase your AT
capacity, or the ability to reach the limit of your capacity for
maintaining your pain for as long as possible without having to stop.

Ideally, you want to work at increasing your AT and staying at the
limit of your suffering for as long as possible. You have exceeded
that edge once you get nausea and dry heaves, light headedness, etc.

If you know that your AT is about 174 and you see that your heart rate
starts going down, that means that you can push a little more to 174.
If you can't sustain 174 then your AT is slighlty lower. However, your
body is probably becoming adapted to handling more excertion at 174.
Because you were exceeding your previous distance, it is likley that
you felt more uncomfortable while your heart was able to handle the
load. So if your bpm starts comming down, you should be able to
increase your effort and still not go anaerobic until you reach 174.

Sometimes, no matter what you do, your heart rate won't go up. That is
because your body is becoming exhausted and you are starting to
overtrain. So, you need to back off. You should nor try to do AT
sessions on consecutive days.

I don't know if Larry Wisenthal is around, but he is a Dr. and knows a
lot more about this than I do. Maybe ha can give you better info.

Also, if you post in rec.sport.triathlon, there si a guy called Andy
Coggan who is a physiologist and knows a ton about this.

Andres


Many thanks for the responses so far. Very very helpful. Please keep
them coming if anybody has anything to add.

I'll see about reposting to rec...triathlon - thanks Andres.



 




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