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Caloric Burn from High Intensity Interval Training



 
 
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  #1  
Old May 14th 04, 07:03 AM
TopCounsel
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Caloric Burn from High Intensity Interval Training

POSTED BY SOMEONE TO ANOTHER NEWSGROUP:
(Do these caloric burn and weight loss claims make sense to anyone? In the
example, the group that burns only about 1/3 of the kcal of the other group has
nine (9) times as much "fat" loss?)
__________________________________________________ _________

In the late 1990's, (ie. I think it was 1998 in fact), a study in
Toronto was experimenting with a concept that many professional
strength coaches had used for years called High Intensity Interval
Training. (HIIT). As with most things, not many in the medical
community paid much attention to them, (In fact, does the medical
community pay attention to anyone but themselves?? ) but after a
while, some researchers wanted to test the concept out on the rest of
us "average people"...

Basically, In this study, what they did i was to take one group of
males and just run them on a treadmill at 70% of their maximum heart
rate for 45 mins, or approx. a 600 kcal burn.

Next, they took another group and had this group only run for 20
minutes, but instead of just running them at 70% of their maximum
heart rate, they instead had them run as fast as they could for approx
30 secs, and then a rest for a bit only to do it again a minute or so
later. Total calorie burn for the second group was approx 215 kcal
for the workout. So over a 15 week period, who lost more weight??
The first group right??? Surprisingly, no....

At the end of a 15 weeks, a skin fold test was done and the second
group had a 900% greater fat loss! What??? How is this possible as
the first group clearly burned more calories??? Well, they don't
really know why, but they suspect it has to do with raising the
individuals "metabolic rate" during the day! Wow, so 20 mins of
exercise is better than 45 mins??? (ie. You get more for less
work???) Now were "cooking with grease"!!!! :-)

HIIT is not a "folklore" science. Most of the professional, college,
and high end fitness people use it everyday. It is highly effective!!
For people that are interested in learning more about HIIT, here are
some resources to learn more about it. Don't think that just because
it is only 20 mins that it is easier, though... It is intense!!!

(IMPORTANT NOTE: HIIT is not for beginners)
http://davedraper.com/hiit-cardio-training.html
http://www.csmngt.com/interval_training.htm
  #2  
Old May 14th 04, 05:14 PM
Donovan Rebbechi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Caloric Burn from High Intensity Interval Training

In article , TopCounsel wrote:

In the late 1990's, (ie. I think it was 1998 in fact), a study in
Toronto was experimenting with a concept that many professional
strength coaches had used for years called High Intensity Interval
Training. (HIIT).


High intensity *intermittent* training actually.

As with most things, not many in the medical
community paid much attention to them, (In fact, does the medical
community pay attention to anyone but themselves?? ) but after a
while, some researchers wanted to test the concept out on the rest of
us "average people"...

Basically, In this study, what they did i was to take one group of
males and just run them on a treadmill at 70% of their maximum heart
rate for 45 mins, or approx. a 600 kcal burn.


I see. But can the average male run continuously on a treadmill for 45
minutes ?

The big study on it (Tremblay) that everyone talks about actually used
stationary bikes IIRC. Steady state work on a stationary bike simply isn't
even close to as demanding as steady state running.

http://www.wsu.edu/~strength/hiit.htm

BTW, I have personally watched people progress much more rapidly in
weight loss by running than they do with HIIT. The HIIT people also
tend to have lousy endurance.

A lot of the weightlifting crowd use HIIT, and despite their "accelerated
metabolisms", they still need (or at least think they need) low carb diets
to maintain what is IMO a fairly unimpressive bodycomposition.

Next, they took another group and had this group only run for 20
minutes, but instead of just running them at 70% of their maximum
heart rate, they instead had them run as fast as they could for approx
30 secs, and then a rest for a bit only to do it again a minute or so
later.


Sounds like the poster is confusing the Tremblay study with this silly
article that Shawn Phillips (a guy who got great abs via cosmetic
surgery) wrote on the subject.

Total calorie burn for the second group was approx 215 kcal
for the workout. So over a 15 week period, who lost more weight??
The first group right??? Surprisingly, no....

At the end of a 15 weeks, a skin fold test was done and the second
group had a 900% greater fat loss! What??? How is this possible as


No. They had 900% fat loss per unit time, or 300% more fat loss.

HIIT is not a "folklore" science. Most of the professional, college,
and high end fitness people use it everyday. It is highly effective!!
For people that are interested in learning more about HIIT, here are
some resources to learn more about it. Don't think that just because
it is only 20 mins that it is easier, though... It is intense!!!

(IMPORTANT NOTE: HIIT is not for beginners)

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I like the way they just pay lip service to this at the very end. The
problem is that developing a balanced training program that takes into
account steady progression and injury prevention is a big picture issue,
not merely something to be appended as an afterthought. Also, it's
precisely the "beginners" or the relatively unfit who are good candidates
for weight loss. Someone who is already a super-athlete will not have much
trouble getting super-lean in little time.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/
  #3  
Old May 14th 04, 05:56 PM
Gleshna
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Caloric Burn from High Intensity Interval Training

they instead had them run as fast as they could for approx
30 secs


At the end of a 15 weeks, a skin fold test was done and the second
group had a 900% greater fat loss! What??? How is this possible as
the first group clearly burned more calories???


Easy, if the run fast group increased their muscle mass. More muscle will
steal calories from fat cells 24/7.

The same thing would probably happen if doing weight training squats.


Gleshna - Multi-Thousandaire

DA LAKES:
Da Lake Tube: http://www.greatlakesurfing.com/imag...lery/point.jpg
Da new Lake Movie: http://www.unsalted.tv/
Da Bears ???????
























  #4  
Old May 14th 04, 09:44 PM
Lyndon
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Caloric Burn from High Intensity Interval Training

topcounsel wrote:

In the late 1990's, (ie. I think it was 1998 in fact), a study in
Toronto was experimenting with a concept that many professional
strength coaches had used for years called High Intensity Interval
Training. (HIIT). As with most things, not many in the medical
community paid much attention to them, (In fact, does the medical
community pay attention to anyone but themselves?? ) but after a
while, some researchers wanted to test the concept out on the rest of
us "average people"...


Can't comment on the weight loss stuff. I'm not aware of any paper on HIIT and
weight loss except Tremblay, et. al. On the (running) performance side, here
is some of the stuff to look at:

http://www.sportsci.org/jour/0101/cf.htm
http://jap.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/84/6/2138
http://jap.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/90/6/2019
Lore of Running pp.160-164

Properly used, this stuff is extremely potent. Some of it has been around for
quite a while--as sprint training. Years before any distance runner heard of
"intermittent training", Quincy Watts was doing sets of 7X100 with a 50 meter
walk to run one of the fastest 400's of all time (some of us did this kind of
stuff 20-30 years ago in high school). It is fairly recent, though, that
researchers figured out that this stuff that sprinters had been doing for a
long time actually worked extremely well for aerobic training. A quote from
the training log of Kenyan Stephen Cherono (12:48 5K last year while doing this
stuff):

"2 sets of 6 x 100m (track) in 13" recovery 15" between every test, and 5 min
between sets (this one is called "intermittent training", and is the best way
of training for improving the threshold before some lactacid training)"

Not much that needs to be said.

The catch is that this is sprint training. You have to know how to warm up (a
warm-up for working out at maximum sprint speed--safely--takes one hour) and
you have to be able to get into shape for this (people running 10 minute miles
or with pronation issues should look elsewhere before they get a big time
injury bug). I suspect that the people who have tried this without good
results are not in good enough shape to handle enough repeats at the necessary
intensity level.

The other catch, I think, is that most people who have learned how to do this
successfully aren't talking much, myself included.

I've tried the HIT stuff with weights, super-slow included, and don't think it
works nearly as well as old-fashioned hypertrophy (for me, 4-5 sets of 10-12
reps of a weight you can llift 15 times). In fact, if you do super-slow at
all, you have to do it very early in the season and get rid of it before it
turns your fast-twitch fibers to molasses.

Lyndon


"Speed Kills...It kills those that don't have it!" --US Olympic Track Coach
Brooks Johnson

  #5  
Old May 18th 04, 06:06 AM
Sam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Caloric Burn from High Intensity Interval Training

I would like to see the details of the study. For one thing, did the
researchers control for diet?


"TopCounsel" wrote in message
...
POSTED BY SOMEONE TO ANOTHER NEWSGROUP:
(Do these caloric burn and weight loss claims make sense to anyone? In

the
example, the group that burns only about 1/3 of the kcal of the other

group has
nine (9) times as much "fat" loss?)
__________________________________________________ _________

In the late 1990's, (ie. I think it was 1998 in fact), a study in
Toronto was experimenting with a concept that many professional
strength coaches had used for years called High Intensity Interval
Training. (HIIT). As with most things, not many in the medical
community paid much attention to them, (In fact, does the medical
community pay attention to anyone but themselves?? ) but after a
while, some researchers wanted to test the concept out on the rest of
us "average people"...

Basically, In this study, what they did i was to take one group of
males and just run them on a treadmill at 70% of their maximum heart
rate for 45 mins, or approx. a 600 kcal burn.

Next, they took another group and had this group only run for 20
minutes, but instead of just running them at 70% of their maximum
heart rate, they instead had them run as fast as they could for approx
30 secs, and then a rest for a bit only to do it again a minute or so
later. Total calorie burn for the second group was approx 215 kcal
for the workout. So over a 15 week period, who lost more weight??
The first group right??? Surprisingly, no....

At the end of a 15 weeks, a skin fold test was done and the second
group had a 900% greater fat loss! What??? How is this possible as
the first group clearly burned more calories??? Well, they don't
really know why, but they suspect it has to do with raising the
individuals "metabolic rate" during the day! Wow, so 20 mins of
exercise is better than 45 mins??? (ie. You get more for less
work???) Now were "cooking with grease"!!!! :-)

HIIT is not a "folklore" science. Most of the professional, college,
and high end fitness people use it everyday. It is highly effective!!
For people that are interested in learning more about HIIT, here are
some resources to learn more about it. Don't think that just because
it is only 20 mins that it is easier, though... It is intense!!!

(IMPORTANT NOTE: HIIT is not for beginners)
http://davedraper.com/hiit-cardio-training.html
http://www.csmngt.com/interval_training.htm



  #6  
Old May 18th 04, 06:08 AM
Sam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Caloric Burn from High Intensity Interval Training


"Donovan Rebbechi" wrote in message
...
In article , TopCounsel

wrote:

In the late 1990's, (ie. I think it was 1998 in fact), a study in
Toronto was experimenting with a concept that many professional
strength coaches had used for years called High Intensity Interval
Training. (HIIT).


High intensity *intermittent* training actually.

As with most things, not many in the medical
community paid much attention to them, (In fact, does the medical
community pay attention to anyone but themselves?? ) but after a
while, some researchers wanted to test the concept out on the rest of
us "average people"...

Basically, In this study, what they did i was to take one group of
males and just run them on a treadmill at 70% of their maximum heart
rate for 45 mins, or approx. a 600 kcal burn.


I see. But can the average male run continuously on a treadmill for 45
minutes ?

The big study on it (Tremblay) that everyone talks about actually used
stationary bikes IIRC. Steady state work on a stationary bike simply isn't
even close to as demanding as steady state running.

http://www.wsu.edu/~strength/hiit.htm



It depends. If I exercise you at 70% of VO2max on each, they would be
equally demanding.


BTW, I have personally watched people progress much more rapidly in
weight loss by running than they do with HIIT. The HIIT people also
tend to have lousy endurance.

A lot of the weightlifting crowd use HIIT, and despite their "accelerated
metabolisms", they still need (or at least think they need) low carb diets
to maintain what is IMO a fairly unimpressive bodycomposition.

Next, they took another group and had this group only run for 20
minutes, but instead of just running them at 70% of their maximum
heart rate, they instead had them run as fast as they could for approx
30 secs, and then a rest for a bit only to do it again a minute or so
later.


Sounds like the poster is confusing the Tremblay study with this silly
article that Shawn Phillips (a guy who got great abs via cosmetic
surgery) wrote on the subject.

Total calorie burn for the second group was approx 215 kcal
for the workout. So over a 15 week period, who lost more weight??
The first group right??? Surprisingly, no....

At the end of a 15 weeks, a skin fold test was done and the second
group had a 900% greater fat loss! What??? How is this possible as


No. They had 900% fat loss per unit time, or 300% more fat loss.

HIIT is not a "folklore" science. Most of the professional, college,
and high end fitness people use it everyday. It is highly effective!!
For people that are interested in learning more about HIIT, here are
some resources to learn more about it. Don't think that just because
it is only 20 mins that it is easier, though... It is intense!!!

(IMPORTANT NOTE: HIIT is not for beginners)

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I like the way they just pay lip service to this at the very end. The
problem is that developing a balanced training program that takes into
account steady progression and injury prevention is a big picture issue,
not merely something to be appended as an afterthought. Also, it's
precisely the "beginners" or the relatively unfit who are good candidates
for weight loss. Someone who is already a super-athlete will not have much
trouble getting super-lean in little time.

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/



  #7  
Old May 18th 04, 06:10 AM
Sam
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Caloric Burn from High Intensity Interval Training


"Lyndon" wrote in message
...
topcounsel wrote:

In the late 1990's, (ie. I think it was 1998 in fact), a study in
Toronto was experimenting with a concept that many professional
strength coaches had used for years called High Intensity Interval
Training. (HIIT). As with most things, not many in the medical
community paid much attention to them, (In fact, does the medical
community pay attention to anyone but themselves?? ) but after a
while, some researchers wanted to test the concept out on the rest of
us "average people"...


Can't comment on the weight loss stuff. I'm not aware of any paper on

HIIT and
weight loss except Tremblay, et. al. On the (running) performance side,

here
is some of the stuff to look at:

http://www.sportsci.org/jour/0101/cf.htm
http://jap.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/84/6/2138
http://jap.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/90/6/2019
Lore of Running pp.160-164

Properly used, this stuff is extremely potent. Some of it has been around

for
quite a while--as sprint training. Years before any distance runner heard

of
"intermittent training", Quincy Watts was doing sets of 7X100 with a 50

meter
walk to run one of the fastest 400's of all time (some of us did this kind

of
stuff 20-30 years ago in high school). It is fairly recent, though, that
researchers figured out that this stuff that sprinters had been doing for

a
long time actually worked extremely well for aerobic training. A quote

from
the training log of Kenyan Stephen Cherono (12:48 5K last year while doing

this
stuff):

"2 sets of 6 x 100m (track) in 13" recovery 15" between every test, and 5

min
between sets (this one is called "intermittent training", and is the best

way
of training for improving the threshold before some lactacid training)"


This would actually be closer to VO2max training. Astrand looked at
30sec on/30sec off decades ago as a way to increase VO2max.



Not much that needs to be said.

The catch is that this is sprint training. You have to know how to warm

up (a
warm-up for working out at maximum sprint speed--safely--takes one hour)

and
you have to be able to get into shape for this (people running 10 minute

miles
or with pronation issues should look elsewhere before they get a big time
injury bug). I suspect that the people who have tried this without good
results are not in good enough shape to handle enough repeats at the

necessary
intensity level.

The other catch, I think, is that most people who have learned how to do

this
successfully aren't talking much, myself included.

I've tried the HIT stuff with weights, super-slow included, and don't

think it
works nearly as well as old-fashioned hypertrophy (for me, 4-5 sets of

10-12
reps of a weight you can llift 15 times). In fact, if you do super-slow

at
all, you have to do it very early in the season and get rid of it before

it
turns your fast-twitch fibers to molasses.

Lyndon


"Speed Kills...It kills those that don't have it!" --US Olympic Track

Coach
Brooks Johnson



  #8  
Old May 18th 04, 11:32 AM
Donovan Rebbechi
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Caloric Burn from High Intensity Interval Training

In article . net, Sam wrote:
I would like to see the details of the study. For one thing, did the
researchers control for diet?


I believe that is a rather inaccurate account of the Tremblay study (and
they didn't control for diet).

Cheers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/
  #9  
Old May 18th 04, 03:13 PM
rick++
external usenet poster
 
Posts: n/a
Default Caloric Burn from High Intensity Interval Training

There are no magic bullets.
Just get off your big end and get moving for a few months
and the weight will fade.
 




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