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Not enough shoulder flexibility for squats?



 
 
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  #1  
Old December 3rd 07, 01:41 PM posted to misc.fitness.weights
Dave[_10_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2
Default Not enough shoulder flexibility for squats?


I find that I don't have enough shoulder flexibility to hold
the bar securely with both hands when attempting to do squats. Would
shoulder stretching exercises help with this prob? Any suggestions
appreciated.

Thanks.
  #2  
Old December 3rd 07, 02:03 PM posted to misc.fitness.weights
Hobbes
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 669
Default Not enough shoulder flexibility for squats?

In article , Dave
wrote:

I find that I don't have enough shoulder flexibility to hold
the bar securely with both hands when attempting to do squats. Would
shoulder stretching exercises help with this prob? Any suggestions
appreciated.

Thanks.


Overhead squats. Start with a broomstick. You probably have issues with
your hamstring and ankle flexibility too, so might as well address
everything at once.

Also - you don't really have to hold the bar securely with your hands.
Just enough to prevent it from rolling.

--
Keith
  #3  
Old December 3rd 07, 03:24 PM posted to misc.fitness.weights
Steve Freides
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,029
Default Not enough shoulder flexibility for squats?

"Hobbes" wrote in message
...
In article , Dave
wrote:

I find that I don't have enough shoulder flexibility to
hold
the bar securely with both hands when attempting to do squats. Would
shoulder stretching exercises help with this prob? Any suggestions
appreciated.

Thanks.


Overhead squats. Start with a broomstick. You probably have issues
with
your hamstring and ankle flexibility too, so might as well address
everything at once.


I agree but I have seen many people who aren't flexible enough to do any
sort of overhead squat, either, e.g., with a broomstick, at the bottom
the stick will be way out in front of them and they'll be all hunched
over.

For such people, I recommend a standing, one-armed overhead press with a
solid pause at the top. A kettlebell works somewhat better than a
dumbbell for this because the weight's center of mass is lower and
behind the arm, allowing you to lean forward slightly at the top in a
way that is less risky than doing the same thing with a dumbbell - but
it's fine to work the one-armed overhead press with a dumbbell for this
purpose as well. I've seen some people recommend simply putting your
hand up there but without a weight and moving it slightly, trying to
sink the shoulder into the socket while keeping the elbow locked and
just generally get used to that range of motion. Putting a weight
overhead and walking with it can also be useful for helping establish
better shoulder functioning in that position. Obviously start light with
any of these and increase the weight with caution.

IMHO, the devil is in the details - have someone watch and be sure you
know what you're trying achieve in terms of shoulder range of motion and
what you're trying to avoid, namely lifting the shoulders in order to
get more ROM.

Just my opinion.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

Also - you don't really have to hold the bar securely with your hands.
Just enough to prevent it from rolling.

--
Keith



  #4  
Old December 3rd 07, 03:44 PM posted to misc.fitness.weights
Hobbes
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 669
Default Not enough shoulder flexibility for squats?

In article ,
"Steve Freides" wrote:

"Hobbes" wrote in message
...
In article , Dave
wrote:

I find that I don't have enough shoulder flexibility to
hold
the bar securely with both hands when attempting to do squats. Would
shoulder stretching exercises help with this prob? Any suggestions
appreciated.

Thanks.


Overhead squats. Start with a broomstick. You probably have issues
with
your hamstring and ankle flexibility too, so might as well address
everything at once.


I agree but I have seen many people who aren't flexible enough to do any
sort of overhead squat, either, e.g., with a broomstick, at the bottom
the stick will be way out in front of them and they'll be all hunched
over.

For such people, I recommend a standing, one-armed overhead press with a
solid pause at the top. A kettlebell works somewhat better than a
dumbbell for this because the weight's center of mass is lower and
behind the arm, allowing you to lean forward slightly at the top in a
way that is less risky than doing the same thing with a dumbbell - but
it's fine to work the one-armed overhead press with a dumbbell for this
purpose as well. I've seen some people recommend simply putting your
hand up there but without a weight and moving it slightly, trying to
sink the shoulder into the socket while keeping the elbow locked and
just generally get used to that range of motion. Putting a weight
overhead and walking with it can also be useful for helping establish
better shoulder functioning in that position. Obviously start light with
any of these and increase the weight with caution.

IMHO, the devil is in the details - have someone watch and be sure you
know what you're trying achieve in terms of shoulder range of motion and
what you're trying to avoid, namely lifting the shoulders in order to
get more ROM.

Just my opinion.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

Also - you don't really have to hold the bar securely with your hands.
Just enough to prevent it from rolling.

--
Keith




I agree with some points and disagree with others. The OH squat is the
best prescription. Depth in the OH squat is limited and the goal is to
work into a deep squat. Limits a

1. If the lower back rounds - stop just above where it rounds.

2. If the bar or broomstick moves forward.

Iniitally start with a very wide grip on the broomstick. The problem
with the OH squat - and where Steve is correct IMO, is that it is better
to have supervision or an idea what you are doing.

--
Keith
  #5  
Old December 3rd 07, 04:20 PM posted to misc.fitness.weights, alt.yoga
Prisoner at War
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,050
Default Not enough shoulder flexibility for squats?

On Dec 3, 8:41 am, Dave wrote:
I find that I don't have enough shoulder flexibility to hold
the bar securely with both hands when attempting to do squats. Would
shoulder stretching exercises help with this prob? Any suggestions
appreciated.

Thanks.



Well, this is something new...I'd never considered the role of the
shoulders in squats...I do try to lift the bar with my arms and
shoulders when at a sticking point (essentially, I try to lift the bar
off my shoulders with my arms in order to help my legs straighten
up!), but I've never really had the shoulders do much work, for all my
effort, so I'm surprised shoulder flexibility should have anything to
do with the squat....

You'll want to look into some basic yoga for serious stretching
exercises...but I suspect you may be doing something wrong (or
something physiologically is wrong) if the shoulders play that great a
role in your squats...basically, they're just there...the bar lies on
them, that's all...hasn't anything to do with how well they can
flex....
  #6  
Old December 3rd 07, 05:04 PM posted to misc.fitness.weights
Steve Freides
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,029
Default Not enough shoulder flexibility for squats?

"Hobbes" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Steve Freides" wrote:

"Hobbes" wrote in message
...
In article , Dave

wrote:

I find that I don't have enough shoulder flexibility to
hold
the bar securely with both hands when attempting to do squats.
Would
shoulder stretching exercises help with this prob? Any suggestions
appreciated.

Thanks.

Overhead squats. Start with a broomstick. You probably have issues
with
your hamstring and ankle flexibility too, so might as well address
everything at once.


I agree but I have seen many people who aren't flexible enough to do
any
sort of overhead squat, either, e.g., with a broomstick, at the
bottom
the stick will be way out in front of them and they'll be all hunched
over.

For such people, I recommend a standing, one-armed overhead press
with a
solid pause at the top. A kettlebell works somewhat better than a
dumbbell for this because the weight's center of mass is lower and
behind the arm, allowing you to lean forward slightly at the top in a
way that is less risky than doing the same thing with a dumbbell -
but
it's fine to work the one-armed overhead press with a dumbbell for
this
purpose as well. I've seen some people recommend simply putting your
hand up there but without a weight and moving it slightly, trying to
sink the shoulder into the socket while keeping the elbow locked and
just generally get used to that range of motion. Putting a weight
overhead and walking with it can also be useful for helping establish
better shoulder functioning in that position. Obviously start light
with
any of these and increase the weight with caution.

IMHO, the devil is in the details - have someone watch and be sure
you
know what you're trying achieve in terms of shoulder range of motion
and
what you're trying to avoid, namely lifting the shoulders in order to
get more ROM.

Just my opinion.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

Also - you don't really have to hold the bar securely with your
hands.
Just enough to prevent it from rolling.

--
Keith




I agree with some points and disagree with others. The OH squat is the
best prescription. Depth in the OH squat is limited and the goal is to
work into a deep squat. Limits a

1. If the lower back rounds - stop just above where it rounds.

2. If the bar or broomstick moves forward.

Iniitally start with a very wide grip on the broomstick. The problem
with the OH squat - and where Steve is correct IMO, is that it is
better
to have supervision or an idea what you are doing.


You're not allowed to agree with some points and disagree with others,
Keith. This is mfw, and we have to have a flame war.



The skill level required for the OHS is high - not only does it require
good shoulder, upper back, hip, and hamstring flexibility, it requires
coordinating them all. I agree that all these things should be
addressed, but since the OP asked for shoulders, that's where I focused
my response. I believe it's generally best to address those skill
individually before asking for them all in one movement.

A typical beginner program here starts with bodyweight stiff-legged
good-mornings to teach folding at the hips while stretching the
hamstrings as exercise #1. I follow that with bodyweight box squats, a
fancy name for sitting in a chair, and we do it with a chair, not a box,
focusing on keeping the shins vertical and the back straight, basically
just adding bending the knees to the first exercise. #3 is a kettlebell
swing, and my feeling is that a standing overhead press (#5 for me
usually, with #4 being the kettlebell clean required to get to the start
of the press) combined with a kettlebell swing is better as a starting
point for most people.

I have seen, as I'm sure you have, many athletes who can demonstrate
strength and/or power and/or skill at athletic movements but still have
not mastered the basic movement patterns of hinging at the hips and
raising their arm straight up. People who have little or no supervision
can, IMHO, achieve better results with the skills addressed as
individually as possible, which is why I almost always do it that way.
If someone gets the hang of those things, I've introduced the OHS with a
stick shortly thereafter, e.g., there's a guy I'm working with once
every month or two now for whom I added the OHS at our second session.

Just my opinion.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com


--
Keith



  #7  
Old December 3rd 07, 08:02 PM posted to misc.fitness.weights,alt.yoga
Dave[_10_]
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2
Default Not enough shoulder flexibility for squats?

Prisoner at War wrote:
On Dec 3, 8:41 am, Dave wrote:
I find that I don't have enough shoulder flexibility to hold
the bar securely with both hands when attempting to do squats. Would
shoulder stretching exercises help with this prob? Any suggestions
appreciated.

Thanks.



Well, this is something new...I'd never considered the role of the
shoulders in squats...I do try to lift the bar with my arms and
shoulders when at a sticking point (essentially, I try to lift the bar
off my shoulders with my arms in order to help my legs straighten
up!), but I've never really had the shoulders do much work, for all my
effort, so I'm surprised shoulder flexibility should have anything to
do with the squat....

You'll want to look into some basic yoga for serious stretching
exercises...but I suspect you may be doing something wrong (or
something physiologically is wrong) if the shoulders play that great a
role in your squats...basically, they're just there...the bar lies on
them, that's all...hasn't anything to do with how well they can
flex....



Yes, I seem to have worked on my upper back and shoulders while
neglecting flexibility. I can (with some difficulty) hold a body bar
behind my neck if my hands are close together. The problem arises when I
try to slide my hands along the bar away from my neck!!
  #8  
Old December 3rd 07, 08:14 PM posted to misc.fitness.weights, alt.yoga, alt.support.chronic-pain
Prisoner at War
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,050
Default Not enough shoulder flexibility for squats?

On Dec 3, 3:02 pm, Dave wrote:


Yes, I seem to have worked on my upper back and shoulders while
neglecting flexibility. I can (with some difficulty) hold a body bar
behind my neck if my hands are close together. The problem arises when I
try to slide my hands along the bar away from my neck!!



That's a very limited range of motion, friend...I suggest you get to a
sports doc and find out what's really the matter...are you absolutely
sure you've got the barbell properly placed on the shoulders? Just
how wide are you trying to make your grip, anyway?

I must confess, I seem to almost have the opposite problem, a
condition opposite to yours -- it's more uncomfortable for me for my
hands to be closer to than farther away from my neck! Though I have
no stability problems at all -- it just feels a bit more awkward to me
with such a close grip.

There's something called a manta ray, some kind of thingamajig you can
wear while doing squats...I don't know much about it, except that it's
pretty expensive at like $80, but I wonder if that could possibly help
you with your issues...main thing, though, is to see if maybe there's
something amiss physiologically -- an old football injury or
something, etc.

Maybe concurrent training in basic yoga will help, too...I'm going to
look into that...I suspect that proper breathing techniques and good
flexibility can help with weight-lifting....
  #9  
Old December 3rd 07, 08:38 PM posted to misc.fitness.weights
Hard Bop Drums
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Posts: 762
Default Not enough shoulder flexibility for squats?

"Dave" wrote in message
...

I find that I don't have enough shoulder flexibility to hold the
bar securely with both hands when attempting to do squats. Would shoulder
stretching exercises help with this prob? Any suggestions appreciated.

Thanks.



Try this: http://www.adfit.com/mantaray/index.asp. These work great.



--
Robert Schuh
"Everything that elevates an individual above the herd and
intimidates the neighbour is henceforth called evil; and
the fair, modest, submissive and conforming mentality,
the mediocrity of desires attains moral designations and honors"
- Nietzsche

http://www.hardbopdrums.com/


  #10  
Old December 3rd 07, 11:13 PM posted to misc.fitness.weights
Burr
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Posts: 676
Default Not enough shoulder flexibility for squats?


"Dave" wrote in message
...

I find that I don't have enough shoulder flexibility to hold the
bar securely with both hands when attempting to do squats. Would shoulder
stretching exercises help with this prob? Any suggestions appreciated.

Thanks.The way I do it is:



I wrap my arms around the bar so that my forearm is on the bar and my
fingers are on the inside ring behind the plates.

I use the same hold when I start with a "warm-up" before I do anything in
the gym.

As far as being flexible, it's up to you, you are as young as your spine.

BUT, it sounds like you have a lot to learn and you need either a gym
buddy that knows what he/she is doing are you need to get a trainer for a
month or two to teach you what's going on.

Until you do that you need to be very careful or you are going to get
hurt, "For Sure".

Burr

Big, Lean, Mean & Clean

Subs. Iron Mind 20 yrs.


 




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