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Update: People who are thinking & teaching about Proper Running Form and Style



 
 
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  #1  
Old December 4th 03, 02:52 PM
Ozzie Gontang
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Default Update: People who are thinking & teaching about Proper Running Form and Style



People I like who think: proper running form and style
These are some of the people who I believe share or shared a life long
learning process regarding proper running form and style:

There's a truth that weaves through all about being able to teach
running as a skill, a graceful dance, and something that one can
educate themself to do.

Besides liking my own folklore on running form and style, in no
particular order, these are some others who I think have shared their
view of good running form and style with a good many people:

John Gilbody's preseving Gordon Pirie's work:
http://www.gordonpirie.com/

Romanov's POSE Method Method
http://www.posetech.com/

Danny Dreyer's ChiRunning
http://chirunning.com/

Coach GP's Run Tall Run Easy
http://www.Runningbuzz.com/thebook.htm

Luca Speciani's
Zen & the Art of Running
www.vivaioclorofilla.it/zen.htm

Arthur Lydiard's books
http://www.mindbodyspirit.com.au/au/l/lydiardarthur.htm

Hal Higdon's coach Fred Wilt:
http://www.mindfulness.com/mrb4.asp

Percy Cerutti (so little remains of his wonderful folklore)
who was admired by a wonderful Indian coach, Mohammad Ilyas Babar:
http://www.tribuneindia.com/2002/20020810/spr-trib.htm

Tom Miller (running friend from the 70's, got his Ph.D. in Exercise
Physiology, also plays with form and style)
www.scooterbikerun.com

Ken Mierke's Evolution Running
http://www.evolutionrunning.com/philosophy.htm

Jack Cady (stridemechanics)
http://www.stridemechanics.com

Ozzie Gontang's Proper Running Form and Style
http://www.mindfulness.com/mr.asp
(booklet to be published)

In health and on the run,
Ozzie Gontang
Maintainer - rec.running FAQ
Director, San Diego Marathon Clinic, est. 1975

Mindful Running: http://www.mindfulness.com/mr.asp
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/running-faq/
  #2  
Old December 4th 03, 03:26 PM
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Default Update: People who are thinking & teaching about Proper Running Form and Style

I guess I'm in good company, because I'm a believer that running form
is everything. I see so many runners flailing away with thier arms in
the wrong positions, or running so crooked or lop-sided they look like
they'll fall over.

On Thu, 04 Dec 2003 14:52:30 GMT, Ozzie Gontang
wrote:



People I like who think: proper running form and style
These are some of the people who I believe share or shared a life long
learning process regarding proper running form and style:

There's a truth that weaves through all about being able to teach
running as a skill, a graceful dance, and something that one can
educate themself to do.

Besides liking my own folklore on running form and style, in no
particular order, these are some others who I think have shared their
view of good running form and style with a good many people:

John Gilbody's preseving Gordon Pirie's work:
http://www.gordonpirie.com/

Romanov's POSE Method Method
http://www.posetech.com/

Danny Dreyer's ChiRunning
http://chirunning.com/

Coach GP's Run Tall Run Easy
http://www.Runningbuzz.com/thebook.htm

Luca Speciani's
Zen & the Art of Running
www.vivaioclorofilla.it/zen.htm

Arthur Lydiard's books
http://www.mindbodyspirit.com.au/au/l/lydiardarthur.htm

Hal Higdon's coach Fred Wilt:
http://www.mindfulness.com/mrb4.asp

Percy Cerutti (so little remains of his wonderful folklore)
who was admired by a wonderful Indian coach, Mohammad Ilyas Babar:
http://www.tribuneindia.com/2002/20020810/spr-trib.htm

Tom Miller (running friend from the 70's, got his Ph.D. in Exercise
Physiology, also plays with form and style)
www.scooterbikerun.com

Ken Mierke's Evolution Running
http://www.evolutionrunning.com/philosophy.htm

Jack Cady (stridemechanics)
http://www.stridemechanics.com

Ozzie Gontang's Proper Running Form and Style
http://www.mindfulness.com/mr.asp
(booklet to be published)

In health and on the run,
Ozzie Gontang
Maintainer - rec.running FAQ
Director, San Diego Marathon Clinic, est. 1975

Mindful Running: http://www.mindfulness.com/mr.asp
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/running-faq/


  #3  
Old December 4th 03, 03:57 PM
apusapus
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Default Update: People who are thinking & teaching about Proper Running Form and Style

"Ozzie Gontang" wrote in message
.. .

John Gilbody's preseving Gordon Pirie's work:
http://www.gordonpirie.com/


Gilbody is a nice guy, with a good heart, but Pirie's work is somewhat
outdated.

Romanov's POSE Method Method
http://www.posetech.com/


Pah! Complete humbug, comprehensive dissed by most sensible people.
Triathletes swear by him. I wonder why?

Danny Dreyer's ChiRunning
http://chirunning.com/


Never heard of him. Nor am I sufficiently interested to check out this
link.

Coach GP's Run Tall Run Easy
http://www.Runningbuzz.com/thebook.htm


Ditto.

Luca Speciani's
Zen & the Art of Running
www.vivaioclorofilla.it/zen.htm


Bloody Italians. Cheat at everything. Even running. Now if it was a
treatise on 'chemical aids'...

Arthur Lydiard's books
http://www.mindbodyspirit.com.au/au/l/lydiardarthur.htm


Mad, bad and dangerous to know. However, he seems to understand distance
runners quite well. Note I said 'runners' not 'running'. A master coach,
but principally as a motivator not an expert on running form.

Hal Higdon's coach Fred Wilt:
http://www.mindfulness.com/mrb4.asp


Another tosser.

Percy Cerutti (so little remains of his wonderful folklore)
who was admired by a wonderful Indian coach, Mohammad Ilyas Babar:
http://www.tribuneindia.com/2002/20020810/spr-trib.htm


Funnily enough I like Cerutti (sic) despite the fact that he studied horses
then tried to apply his findings to people. Nice guy who was fortunate
enough to coach a great runner or two.

Tom Miller (running friend from the 70's, got his Ph.D. in Exercise
Physiology, also plays with form and style)
www.scooterbikerun.com


So, if I become your friend, will I get a mention?

Ken Mierke's Evolution Running
http://www.evolutionrunning.com/philosophy.htm


Every time I see the word 'philosophy' near to the word 'running' I begin to
feel nauseous.

Jack Cady (stridemechanics)
http://www.stridemechanics.com


I'll go and see with this strangely-named person has to say before venturing
an opinion.

Ozzie Gontang's Proper Running Form and Style
http://www.mindfulness.com/mr.asp
(booklet to be published)


Ah! Crazy but kind-hearted Oz! Yes, you too may stand with these
coaching 'greats' one day. But not until you start paying attention to
what I have to say.


Roger.


  #4  
Old December 4th 03, 04:21 PM
Tom Wheeler
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Default Update: People who are thinking & teaching about ProperRunning...

Like when cell break under left foot.
The kids at pond say were you going"?
I am going to get my frog speer.
That bullfrog noise is too evan a beet to be real.
Who sid to do bigger trides?

  #5  
Old December 4th 03, 04:46 PM
Globaldisc
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Default Update: People who are thinking & teaching about Proper Running Form and Style

People I like who think: proper running form and style
___

Ozzie....the guy who's done "it" at a level and benchmark beyond everyone else
in the history of the world "does it all wrong" according to most who preach
about form and style: Michael Johnson.

You cannot simply dismiss this fact and you must allow for the realization that
there's no such thing as "proper running from and style" acorss the board.
Michael Johnson destroys all arguments characterizing "proper running form &
style". This is a fact those that preach on "proper running style and from"
cannot dismiss, avoid, or characterize as an excpetion. He's the elephant in
the room, on the subject.

In Michael Johnson's early career running coaches told him time and time again
how "he does it all wrong"...yeah yeah yeah. He basically told them all
"screw you" and focused on his own unconventional, completely contrary
"running form and style". He defied and broke all the wisdom, all the
opinion, all the "lore"....and that only got him to be the greatest the world
has ever witnessed in his running events.

Bottom line is the greatest at the pursuit (running) does not fall in line or
conform to what's stated in all those liniks you've presented. That's an
uncomfortable position & reality for all the running preachers of the
world....but a true point of fact.

I'm a sprinter first and foremost, not a middle or long distance runner. I'm
a bit more sensitive on this subject than most because I've seen lots of
"Michael Johnson's" in my years of running.....people that "do it all wrong"
according to the experts. There is not a coach in the world would would
advise or suggest any sprinter run with the form and style of Michael Johnson.
Yet, Michael Johnson is the best the world has ever seen at his events.
Coming to terms with this is what coaches dislike because it illustrates beyond
any doubt that there is no such thing as "proper running form and style acrosst
the board".

Ozzie, just gotta tell it like it is....tomorrow we may see another "Michael
Johnson"...a great runner, long, middle or sprint runner....the best in the
world who defies all the coaches wisdom.

The only argument coaches have to explain Michael Johnson is to call him an
"exception". That's an easy argument that dismisses Michael Johnson without
forcing the coaching world to coming to terms with reality. Reality is that
because there is an exception......there is no rule. Again, there is no rule!


  #6  
Old December 4th 03, 05:17 PM
Donovan Rebbechi
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Default Update: People who are thinking & teaching about Proper Running Form and Style

In article , Globaldisc wrote:

Ozzie....the guy who's done "it" at a level and benchmark beyond everyone else
in the history of the world "does it all wrong" according to most who preach
about form and style: Michael Johnson.


[snip]

Amen to all that.

Ozzie, just gotta tell it like it is....tomorrow we may see another "Michael
Johnson"...a great runner, long, middle or sprint runner....the best in the
world who defies all the coaches wisdom.


History offers several examples of great runners who defied the conventional wisdom
of their day, including runners who didn't have "proper" form.

The case that the "ball strikers" have failed to make is the argument that there is
a *causal* link, as opposed to a coincidental association between some of
these biomechanical characteristics observed in some elite runners and effective
running. The existence of counter examples is evidence against a causal link.

For example, the fact that elites can run lighter may have something to do with their
body type, and their relatively light weight. It seems unlikely that a 250lb
runner with broad hips and splayed feet would gain much from attempting to
imitate a 125lb under-pronating runner with 28 inch hips. It certainly wouldn't enable
them to run like the 125lb runner.

CHeers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/
  #7  
Old December 4th 03, 08:53 PM
Lyndon
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Default Update: People who are thinking & teaching about Proper Running Form and Style

In article , Globaldisc wrote:

Ozzie....the guy who's done "it" at a level and benchmark beyond everyone

else
in the history of the world "does it all wrong" according to most who

preach
about form and style: Michael Johnson.


[snip]

Amen to all that.

Ozzie, just gotta tell it like it is....tomorrow we may see another

"Michael
Johnson"...a great runner, long, middle or sprint runner....the best in

the
world who defies all the coaches wisdom.


History offers several examples of great runners who defied the conventional
wisdom
of their day, including runners who didn't have "proper" form.

The case that the "ball strikers" have failed to make is the argument that
there is
a *causal* link, as opposed to a coincidental association between some of
these biomechanical characteristics observed in some elite runners and
effective
running. The existence of counter examples is evidence against a causal link.

For example, the fact that elites can run lighter may have something to do
with their
body type, and their relatively light weight. It seems unlikely that a 250lb
runner with broad hips and splayed feet would gain much from attempting to
imitate a 125lb under-pronating runner with 28 inch hips. It certainly
wouldn't enable
them to run like the 125lb runner.

CHeers,
--
Donovan Rebbechi
http://pegasus.rutgers.edu/~elflord/

To further Andrew's point, here's a photo of someone caught "in the act":

http://www.dyestatcal.com/statemeet/...ages/003ScottS
mithDHMi_jpg.htm

This photo was taken recently at the California State Cross Country
Championships. The runner is Scott Smith. He is one of the fastest high
school xc runners in Southern California. He has run something like 15:17 at
Mt. Sac, which makes him faster than anyone who posts here (including Andy
Haas). He is a high school junior, and will be nationally ranked next year if
he continues to improve. And he is not just a heel striker, but a fairly bad
one.

In my mind, a great many of the injuries that you see posted here every week,
and a great many stride mechanics problems, can be "fixed" indirectly simply by
warming up properly. This includes a warmup jog, some drills that encourage
proper mechanics, and some 100 meter strides to somewhere around mile pace (400
pace if you're a sprinter). Go to a race early and watch the elites warm up.

If you have someone like Scott Smith and indirect methods don't "work," you
face a dilemma. One one hand, you know that heel striking increases ground
contact time, and can increase injuries if the heel striker is overstriding.
On the other hand, you know from Cavanaugh's work that messing with stride
mechanics *consciously* will frequently make the athlete SLOWER. At such
times, I try to remember Clyde Hart's example with MJ: There are times to NOT
mess with it, and if it ain't broke don't fix it.

I think there are two general tests that can be used:

(1) Is the athlete getting injured in ways that can be attributed to heel
striking and overpronation (AT, ITBS, PF, etc.)? Most bechanics problems that
have to be changed will show up here. If so, changing the running form likely
makes a major improvement, if only to be able to train consistently without
injuries.

(2) Is the athlete overstriding? Bill Bowerman used the term "negative leg
speed," meaning that the leg should be moving backward at contact time. If the
leg is not moving backward at contact, then the leg is causing a braking motion
which is slowing you down and causing extra energy that can cause injuries to
run up your legs, and in this case, changing running form probably makes a
major improvement.

It is fairly simple to determine of one needs to change form. Look at your
running log: How many training days are lost to injuries? Set up a video
camera and run past it: Is the leg moving backward, or is it putting on the
brakes on every stride?

If runners simply warm up properly, I think the number of cases requiring
direct involvement are actually quite limited.

Lyndon
"Speed Kills...It kills those that don't have it!" --US Olympic Track Coach
Brooks Johnson

  #8  
Old December 5th 03, 05:03 AM
Matthew Mazerowski
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Default Update: People who are thinking & teaching about Proper Running Form and Style

"
Ah! Crazy but kind-hearted Oz! Yes, you too may stand with these
coaching 'greats' one day. But not until you start paying attention to
what I have to say.


Roger.


Going to coach them to sit on a couch eat and get fat and collect unemployment.
  #9  
Old December 5th 03, 08:57 AM
apusapus
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Posts: n/a
Default Update: People who are thinking & teaching about Proper Running Form and Style

"Matthew Mazerowski" wrote in message
om...

Going to coach them to sit on a couch eat and get fat and collect

unemployment.

I was under the impression that one no longer has to leave ones couch to
"collect unemployment". Isn't it paid directly into your bank account?


Roger.


  #10  
Old December 6th 03, 10:59 PM
Matthew Mazerowski
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Default Update: People who are thinking & teaching about Proper Running Form and Style

"

I was under the impression that one no longer has to leave ones couch to
"collect unemployment". Isn't it paid directly into your bank account?


Roger.


You would know.
 




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